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post #11 of 90 Old 10-08-2014, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darrell View Post
so just to clarify Centex...you are running the Alpine PWE-S8?

where did you mount it? I didn't see it in your rear cargo area? of course I wasn't going to just go crawling around in there... lol

you have the powered sub and the amp all hooked up?
Patience, Grasshopper ;-)

None of the audio mods were in the FE when we visited, so there was nothing to see.

The speakers went in awhile ago (9/14) the rest a week ago and I've been 'calibrating' since (playing with gain, crossovers, balance/fade) using both test-tones and music, lowbrow instruments and ears. That iterative process has taken some time as my ears need rest and it helps to 'step away' not listening for awhile, listen at length, use different music, etc. The amps have been 'loose located' during that process so I can more easily access the controls which won't be so conveniently reached when in their final firm mounted locations.

All will be revealed when, in the next day or so, I complete the final bolt-down, get the wires hidden and snap a few pics.

'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

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post #12 of 90 Old 10-08-2014, 10:47 PM
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centex, about the remote power on for your amp, you would want to connect that to the delayed ignition output, right? I have my amps connected to this output and it works as the factory system did. I looked at the wiring diagram and the non-Sony system is different than the Sony system in regards to which wire this is at the BCM and it also depends on if you have power window door modules in each door (all windows auto up and down). You probably know all of this but just in case......

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post #13 of 90 Old 10-08-2014, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spider Pig View Post
... I recently replaced my 3.5" center speaker with a Polk 4 ohm speaker. You want to talk about a massive upgrade to the sound! It was much like getting a high quality center channel speaker for your home theater system.

It pulled out the muddled mid-range only sound and gave both volume and vibrancy to music...
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Originally Posted by leadmic View Post
Good INFO, but what did you do about the ohm difference? ...
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Originally Posted by Spider Pig View Post
I didn't worry about it. I upgraded the doors with Alpine 610s, which are also 4 ohms, and then Polk tweeters, which are the same. Everything is working beautifully together. After installing I just had to tweak the speaker output to rear bias slightly more in the MFT to balance out the sound.
A few comments not to criticize ...

Re: 4 Ohm instead of 8 Ohm
+ Though there may be some risk to the Audio Unit power output circuits, from what I've gleaned as a non-expert, the risk may be less in low-powered systems (ours certainly is that), the risk may be long-term, the risk may be less if not played at high output (volume) consistently, and then again the system may tolerate it just fine forever. It's worth noting that the "Ohm / impedance rating" of speakers is a nominal-average-artificial-number, the actual impedance of a speaker constantly varies with frequency and power level.

+ All other things being equal (Audio Unit volume setting and speaker sensitivity) the 4 Ohm speaker will be louder than the 8 Ohm speaker. That means that the 4 Ohm front center speaker will be more prominent relative to the front L/R speakers 'out of the box'; lacking a separate control for front-center relative to the front L/R speakers, the only way to reduce the level of the front center speaker in the overall mix is to bias the sound to the rear which of course reduces the front L/R volume along with the front center relative volume to the rear

Re: The Sound "Effect"
+ Listening to music is like looking at art ... first and foremost the old saw "I may not know 'good' art but I know what I like" applies absolutely. What is "right" for each of us is not the same, in terms of both music tastes and the audio effect delivered to our ears.

+ From his description of the mod and adjustments I strongly suspect that in comparison to the 'effect' of my system, Spider Pig's has much more center prominence, much less L/R distinction from the front, and much more bias to sound originating from behind the driver. Not saying one is right or wrong, just pointing out the likely comparative differences .... "right / wrong" is in the ear of the beholder.

Bottom line - if you like the sound of your system for your music, that's all that counts.
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'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

Help us help you - what is your year, engine, drivetrain, trim and SYNC version?
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post #14 of 90 Old 10-08-2014, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by centex View Post
Bottom line - if you like the sound of your system for your music, that's all that counts.
Can't agree with you more!!!

Having designed and built speakers systems in my younger days (many years ago), not everyone seems to like what you like. Some love it, some hate it. As long as you like what you have created, that is all that matters.

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post #15 of 90 Old 10-08-2014, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
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centex, about the remote power on for your amp, you would want to connect that to the delayed ignition output, right? I have my amps connected to this output and it works as the factory system did. I looked at the wiring diagram and the non-Sony system is different than the Sony system in regards to which wire this is at the BCM and it also depends on if you have power window door modules in each door (all windows auto up and down). You probably know all of this but just in case......
Nope, I didn't, you are continuing my education as you have in the past.

As I understand, you are saying that in lieu of tapping an amp remote turn-on lead to BCM fuse 87 (which is hot only with ignition on), there is a place to tap 12 volt for that trigger which is hot during the same 'before and after startup' periods that the OEM sound system is hot.

No, I did not find that connection point (being lazy I quit looking when I found the 'speaker-sensing feature' of the amps I chose would work just fine without any separate remote turn-on connection).

If either one of us has a chance to describe that connection point for the readers, recognizing it is different depending on other features, that'd maybe be helpful in this thread for folks that don't have the Service Manual ;-)

(I may or may not get to finding that info)

BTW to everyone .... if you have tips relating to connecting audio mods to the non-Sony system which are proven to work, please feel free to add to this thread for the benefit of all

'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

Help us help you - what is your year, engine, drivetrain, trim and SYNC version?
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post #16 of 90 Old 10-08-2014, 11:44 PM
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The thing is, before I post here on any thread, I like to test and confirm my findings to make sure it will work for others. Since I have the Sony audio system and door modules in each door, my delay ignition turn on lead is not in the same connector nor is it the same color wire as the one for your system described here. After looking at the wiring diagram for the non-Sony system, I see a couple of different wires I would tap into that should have DC output on the delayed ignition. One is at the main fuse box in the engine compartment and the other at the BCM. Do you have door modules in each door (all windows auto up and down)? I am actually in a plane to Utah right now and have nothing better to do so I can look at the wiring diagram again before we land.

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post #17 of 90 Old 10-09-2014, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
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The thing is, before I post here on any thread, I like to test and confirm my findings to make sure it will work for others...
I absolutely appreciate that ... thus my harping on "proven to work".


Quote:
Originally Posted by markboris View Post
Since I have the Sony audio system and door modules in each door, my delay ignition turn on lead is not in the same connector nor is it the same color wire as the one for your system described here. After looking at the wiring diagram for the non-Sony system, I see a couple of different wires I would tap into that should have DC output on the delayed ignition. One is at the main fuse box in the engine compartment and the other at the BCM. Do you have door modules in each door (all windows auto up and down)? I am actually in a plane to Utah right now and have nothing better to do so I can look at the wiring diagram again before we land.
I have door modules but this issue is moot for me as stated above. Any additional info that can be posted about connections to the non-Sony system, as long as we make clear the precedent conditions (e.g. with/without door modules (auto-up-down on all windows)) would be for the benefit of others that follow. If 'untested' it'd be nice to simply present things as a "suggestion for testing to verify that it works as intended".




[totally off-topic rant - does anyone else find it irritating that we can't go back and edit posts, particularly technical posts, a hour or more after the OP? No reply to this rhetorical question needed ;-)]

'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

Help us help you - what is your year, engine, drivetrain, trim and SYNC version?
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post #18 of 90 Old 10-09-2014, 06:03 AM
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I shall eagerly await the final items then sir!

as was stated...I like the overall quality of the 9 speaker system as it isn't too bad...but it definitely lacks lower freq presence...and I know it would be next to impossible to find a sub other than the factory unit to mount in the cubby on the driver side in the rear cargo area...and I have a powered kenwood unit in my truck and it works great working off the signal from the speakers.

Thank you sir!
D

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post #19 of 90 Old 10-10-2014, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centex View Post
A few comments not to criticize ...

Re: 4 Ohm instead of 8 Ohm
+ Though there may be some risk to the Audio Unit power output circuits, from what I've gleaned as a non-expert, the risk may be less in low-powered systems (ours certainly is that), the risk may be long-term, the risk may be less if not played at high output (volume) consistently, and then again the system may tolerate it just fine forever. It's worth noting that the "Ohm / impedance rating" of speakers is a nominal-average-artificial-number, the actual impedance of a speaker constantly varies with frequency and power level.

+ All other things being equal (Audio Unit volume setting and speaker sensitivity) the 4 Ohm speaker will be louder than the 8 Ohm speaker. That means that the 4 Ohm front center speaker will be more prominent relative to the front L/R speakers 'out of the box'; lacking a separate control for front-center relative to the front L/R speakers, the only way to reduce the level of the front center speaker in the overall mix is to bias the sound to the rear which of course reduces the front L/R volume along with the front center relative volume to the rear

Re: The Sound "Effect"
+ Listening to music is like looking at art ... first and foremost the old saw "I may not know 'good' art but I know what I like" applies absolutely. What is "right" for each of us is not the same, in terms of both music tastes and the audio effect delivered to our ears.

+ From his description of the mod and adjustments I strongly suspect that in comparison to the 'effect' of my system, Spider Pig's has much more center prominence, much less L/R distinction from the front, and much more bias to sound originating from behind the driver. Not saying one is right or wrong, just pointing out the likely comparative differences .... "right / wrong" is in the ear of the beholder.

Bottom line - if you like the sound of your system for your music, that's all that counts.
Yes, I knew about possible risks going from 8 to 4 ohms, but after doing some research, I came to the conclusion that while there was "risk," it was minimal. And since I usually get a new car every four years or so, I wouldn't see any possible problems before I buy something else.

And you're correct about my sound setup as well. I prefer depth in my music/sound, but also like keeping everything central to the entire car. I have no idea why, but it just sounds much more complete to me if the sound is focused dead center. I usually rear bias the sound when I'm not running an amplifier/sub. This comes from owning many cars with 6.5" front speakers and 6x9" rear speakers. Without a subwoofer, the 6x9 usually have the ability to put out more volume, which gives a slight impression of more bass to even everything out.

What is interesting is that my sound setup is probably strange to a lot of people, because I have chronic tinnitus from working in the gun business. I also don't listen to my music turned way up, which is why I upgrade the speakers to give better clarity without risking destroying the head unit/audio control unit.

But you made great points all around. Any modification comes with a risk; even speakers, and people forget that at times.

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post #20 of 90 Old 10-13-2014, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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Details of the components I chose and a few pics of the installed sub/amp are now posted at 2014 SE Alpine Edition (Non-Sony audio upgrades)

@darrell ;-)

'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

Help us help you - what is your year, engine, drivetrain, trim and SYNC version?
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