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post #81 of 92 Old 08-18-2016, 03:55 AM Thread Starter
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No part of the woofer should touch back of the inside finish door trim panel (known as the 'door card'). If it does you run great risk of transmitting vibration / rattle / 'buzz' to the door card at some frequency and you don't want that, it'll drive ya crazy.

Either reduce the thickness of your woofer spacers so it's set back a bit (the much preferred solution) or if you must, trim any molded projections off of the back of the door card that touch the speaker.

Trimming the projections on the back of the door card is less desirable because those add stiffness to the door trim panel, reducing the potential for vibration and noise. If your speaker is that close to the panel you may be in trouble when it goes through maximum excursion on 'big' bass notes anyway (the cone or perimeter roll may touch the inside of the panel). Make sure nothing touches the flexible 'roll' around the perimeter of the speaker cone - that must have room to freely move forward as the speaker cone moves with 'big' bass notes.

Ideal is to have the woofer frame about 1/8" - 3/16" behind the circular 'fin' projecting on the back of the trim panel. Use soft foam (grey-foam adhesive weather strip, stuck to the speaker frame perimeter) to fill that gap with slight compression, you don't want the foam totally compressed, again to prevent transmitting vibration from the speaker to the door trim panel.

Take your time, it may take several tries to get it all right.

'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

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post #82 of 92 Old 08-20-2016, 09:30 PM
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When I first installed speakers, I followed the youtube video and bought the exact same speakers in the video, so every little trick I already knew. These Alpine 610c, sound great and much better. What I did was leave the rear door handles (actually the switch for the windows) off, so I can pull the door of faster, and continue touching up the work. Just cant roll up or down the rear windows, and limit the passengers and just use the FE when I have to use it. Rear seats, Woofers, are installed, they fit great, sound great, just in the process of adding a foam trim to the edge of the speaker, which I am planning to add tomorrow, about 1/8" thick, but I could double it up and go 1/4.

The tweeters in the door, I basically just removed the OEM tweeters and inserted the new tweeters in the same spot, added hot glue. Im tempted to change it, but I didnt want to make any changes to the door panel, but I am tempted to mount the speakers in stealth mode as the alpine instruction say, but I would have to trim a little around the door panel remove the clips, but they seems to be fine they why they are. Probably sound better if I did install them the stealth way. Replaced the tweeters in the A-Pillar, added electrical tape and zip ties to the excess cords, and may go back over that with black athletic tape, rear door also. Just need to pull the front 2 woofers out, I ended buying 2 sets of 610s, and just replacing them all.. Yes everything seems to be going great, one tweeter I removed the grill, and I little screw stuck right to the front of it, ticked me off, but it sounds normal, but I have been very careful to keep stuff away from it, magent, etc, but never fails, I will say the 610c are really awesome speakers, the sound is great!
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post #83 of 92 Old 08-23-2016, 09:47 PM
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Gothca, looks like I got the 8 speakers replaced, took some trimming to the woofer frame, I sanded it down, it has like a fence around it, I took that off, it fit perfectly. Sounds amazing. The center speaker, does that play music at all? I know it controls the sync voice commands, etc. Do you see any advantages to replacing the center speaker? I noticed some go with 4" polk, but again I cant tell if it plays music.

Took alot of time, using the oem woofer mounts, no vibrations, those alpines are great. The foam, caught me off guard and added and extra day, I needed to locate it and get it in. Took some good photos of the center speaker today, will upload those soon.
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post #84 of 92 Old 08-23-2016, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, the center speaker plays all sounds that also occur in both the L&R front channels. That's the sounds 'mixed to mono' by the recording engineer, the sounds that are perfectly 'centered' on the 'stage'. That includes all the SYNC tones and voices, which are actually in the L&R front, too (except the backup proximity alarms, if you have that, which are on the rear channels only).

If you disconnect that speaker you will not lose any sounds, they'll be heard from the L&R channels and 'combined in your brain' to sound like center mono. @markboris suggested simply unplugging the center channel and I found I liked that better, too, with my Alpine setup. I think that's because of the poor relative fidelity of the center speaker compared to the upgraded speakers. It's an easy thing to test, costs nothing and won't hurt anything.

You, too, may find that your preferred solution, especially if you mainly listen alone and use the 'driver only' occupancy setting. The center comes more into play when you use the 'driver+front passenger' occupancy setting, to help create a less-compromised 'stage ambience' for both folks in the front seat (a time-alignment function).

It's a bit harder to find an 8 Ohm speaker upgrade for the center that fits (the OEM center is 8 Ohm nominal unlike all the others). You can probably/maybe run a 4 Ohm without damage/overheating of the output transistors over time, but it may be harder to 'balance' the center to the sides when you do that.

Yes, I'm back to a center channel with my different current setup, but that's not using the OEM center channel output. My new center channel is 'created' by my aftermarket DSP from the front L&R signals and I'm using a much more difficult/expensive 2-way active XO tweeter+midrange custom installed in the center so it isn't a fair comparison to the choices you have.

'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

Help us help you - what is your year, engine, drivetrain, trim and SYNC version?
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post #85 of 92 Old 08-24-2016, 02:07 PM
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I have infinity but I don't know if I need to upgrade the amp which I do have one highway 5 channel one Rockford fosgate sub amplifier and a 10 inch type R. Could I swap that with back sub. I also own amp Boss CE2505

Infinity kappa 680.9CS and Infinity Kappa 680.9CS
And the installbay AK01 3600watt amplifier wiring kit. Any way to install the and get them to fit in my 2013?

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post #86 of 92 Old 08-24-2016, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perseverantone View Post
I have infinity but I don't know if I need to upgrade the amp which I do have one highway 5 channel one Rockford fosgate sub amplifier and a 10 inch type R. Could I swap that with back sub. I also own amp Boss CE2505

Infinity kappa 680.9CS and Infinity Kappa 680.9CS
And the installbay AK01 3600watt amplifier wiring kit. Any way to install the and get them to fit in my 2013?
If you have an OEM back sub then you do not have the Non-Sony system that is the subject of this thread, please find a suitable thread about upgrading the Sony System to pursue your questions.

Thank You !

FWIW none of the speakers you list are remotely close to the OEM Sony System speaker size and shape. Nothing is impossible but you are looking at a huge amount of effort and extensive custom modification to try make that all work. IMHO you would do much better in terms of both effort, cost and sound to sell that gear and get stuff more suited to the car. Adding amps to the Sony system is another complicated issue, beyond the scope of this thread about the non-Sony system.

'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

Help us help you - what is your year, engine, drivetrain, trim and SYNC version?
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post #87 of 92 Old 12-18-2016, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centex View Post
Yes, the center speaker plays all sounds that also occur in both the L&R front channels. That's the sounds 'mixed to mono' by the recording engineer, the sounds that are perfectly 'centered' on the 'stage'. That includes all the SYNC tones and voices, which are actually in the L&R front, too (except the backup proximity alarms, if you have that, which are on the rear channels only).

If you disconnect that speaker you will not lose any sounds, they'll be heard from the L&R channels and 'combined in your brain' to sound like center mono. @markboris suggested simply unplugging the center channel and I found I liked that better, too, with my Alpine setup. I think that's because of the poor relative fidelity of the center speaker compared to the upgraded speakers. It's an easy thing to test, costs nothing and won't hurt anything.

You, too, may find that your preferred solution, especially if you mainly listen alone and use the 'driver only' occupancy setting. The center comes more into play when you use the 'driver+front passenger' occupancy setting, to help create a less-compromised 'stage ambience' for both folks in the front seat (a time-alignment function).

It's a bit harder to find an 8 Ohm speaker upgrade for the center that fits (the OEM center is 8 Ohm nominal unlike all the others). You can probably/maybe run a 4 Ohm without damage/overheating of the output transistors over time, but it may be harder to 'balance' the center to the sides when you do that.

Yes, I'm back to a center channel with my different current setup, but that's not using the OEM center channel output. My new center channel is 'created' by my aftermarket DSP from the front L&R signals and I'm using a much more difficult/expensive 2-way active XO tweeter+midrange custom installed in the center so it isn't a fair comparison to the choices you have.
I wonder if adding a tweeter to the center channel would help. My other car does pretty much the same thing with the center channel and adding a tweeter made a huge difference.
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post #88 of 92 Old 12-19-2016, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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I wonder if adding a tweeter to the center channel would help. My other car does pretty much the same thing with the center channel and adding a tweeter made a huge difference.
Give it a try and let us know what you think. If combining with the OEM speaker (as opposed to using a properly matched 2-way pair) seems you'd need an L-pad or adjustable-output XO to get the EQ of the tweeter correct relative to the midrange speaker. You'll certainly get more 'sound' (and for many folks more sound is better even if poorly staged - if you like it that's all that matters).

For my tastes the problem is that the OEM center channel signal is not correct for proper 'staging' of the audio environment. A true "center" channel should only reproduce the sounds that occur in the left AND right channels. It should not include any sound that occurs only in the left OR right (which the OEM center signal does). It's actually a bit more complex than that, that's why a DSP that creates a 'true' center channel (not all do) is required to get good staging with a center-front speaker.

The JBL MS-8 with Logic 7 and the Alpine PXA-H800 with Dolby Pro Logic II are two DSPs that create a 'true' center channel environment.

IMHO lacking a 'proper' DSP-created center-channel environment you're better-off eliminating the center speaker and letting your brain 'build' the center stage by interpreting the EQ differences from the discrete L&R sounds .... the brain is still the absolute best signal-processor extant.

FWIW many if not most championship SQ cars do not run a dedicated center speaker - they win because the listener brain does such a great job of creating the 'center stage' from well-tuned L&R speakers for the single-optimal listening position. In fact, the JBL and Alpine systems are used mainly for providing better staging for multiple listening positions; for a single-position setup they are a slight compromise, IMHO.


'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

Help us help you - what is your year, engine, drivetrain, trim and SYNC version?
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post #89 of 92 Old 12-19-2016, 01:38 AM Thread Starter
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... In fact, the JBL and Alpine systems are used mainly for providing better staging for multiple listening positions; for a single-position setup they are a slight compromise, IMHO.
Late edit, that sentence was terribly written. I should have said:

"In fact, the center channel offered by the JBL and Alpine systems is used mainly for providing better staging for multiple listening positions; for a single-position setup the center channel is a slight compromise, IMHO."

Both are great DSPs and both support optimizing for single-position or multiple position listening, with or without a center-front speaker.

'14 Escape SE 2.0 FWD (25 Sep 13 build); 201A SE Convenience Package; Power Liftgate; Leather Comfort Package; Oxford White on Med Light Stone Leather (SYNC 2 w/8" MFT screen)
I love my hard-working '05 F-150 XLT 5.4 V8 trailer-towing truck, too !

Help us help you - what is your year, engine, drivetrain, trim and SYNC version?
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post #90 of 92 Old 01-11-2017, 03:10 PM
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Disconnect the center speaker

I finally got around to disconnecting the center speaker. I guess this is a personal taste thing concerning the way the audio system sounds with the center speaker. I have always been unhappy with the the sound system. For me it is always too brilliant. I tried the various settings such as Driver, Rear, Both. Even setting the Treble to its minimum setting. Finally, disconnecting the center speaker has made the sound so much better. I am now able to set the tone controls to the middle setting and it sounds much better.

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