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post #21 of 28 Old 03-01-2019
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Originally Posted by murcod View Post
Those sort of boost levels were high back in the 1990's. These days that sort of pressure seems to be quite common on direct injected turbo engines.


(I was running a maximum of 14PSI on a modded 1.8l EFI engine back in the early 1990's.)
But you have to compare the state of tune --the 2.0 is not tuned for maximum output. It is tuned for low and midrange torque and response.

And I bet your 1.8 wasn't accelerating a 3800 pound vehicle. Nor did it have a factory warranty of 5 years or 60k miles.

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post #22 of 28 Old 03-02-2019
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Originally Posted by phoneman91 View Post
But you have to compare the state of tune --the 2.0 is not tuned for maximum output. It is tuned for low and midrange torque and response.

And I bet your 1.8 wasn't accelerating a 3800 pound vehicle. Nor did it have a factory warranty of 5 years or 60k miles.

You missed my point. Engine technology and fuels have improved- with that safe boost levels have increased across the board. The Escape 2.0l EcoBoost isn't anything out of the ordinary as far as the boost pressures go.


This site runs through a few of the 2.0l EcoBoost engines and gives a boost pressure of 19.5 PSI- with a transient over boost of 21 PSI for 15 seconds- in the LW/LZ Focus ST. One site I came across mentioned the Escape and Edge 2.0l EcoBoost have the addition of an oil cooler. https://www.full-race.com/fusion-freak-o-boost/



From some quick searches the Mustang 2.3l EcoBoost runs 18PSI, in the Focus RS the 2.3l EcoBoost it runs 23PSI. https://newatlas.com/all-the-tech-be...ocus-rs/40344/ Some people report higher levels https://www.focusrs.org/forum/9-focu...eak-boost.html



Look at something like the Mercedes A45 AMG and back in 2014 they were introduced with 1.8Bar (or 26PSI.) Mercedes A 45 AMG: The most powerful 4-cylinder turbo engine in the world


Looking at a similar engine, the GM 2.0l Turbo Ecotec LTG (as fitted in the Equinox), GM state ".. The turbo generates up to 20 pounds of boost..." It's rated at 252hp and 260lb/ft vs the Escape at 245hp and 275 lb/ft.

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post #23 of 28 Old 03-02-2019
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Originally Posted by murcod View Post
You missed my point. Engine technology and fuels have improved- with that safe boost levels have increased across the board. The Escape 2.0l EcoBoost isn't anything out of the ordinary as far as the boost pressures go.


This site runs through a few of the 2.0l EcoBoost engines and gives a boost pressure of 19.5 PSI- with a transient over boost of 21 PSI for 15 seconds- in the LW/LZ Focus ST. One site I came across mentioned the Escape and Edge 2.0l EcoBoost have the addition of an oil cooler. https://www.full-race.com/fusion-freak-o-boost/



From some quick searches the Mustang 2.3l EcoBoost runs 18PSI, in the Focus RS the 2.3l EcoBoost it runs 23PSI. https://newatlas.com/all-the-tech-be...ocus-rs/40344/ Some people report higher levels https://www.focusrs.org/forum/9-focu...eak-boost.html



Look at something like the Mercedes A45 AMG and back in 2014 they were introduced with 1.8Bar (or 26PSI.) Mercedes A 45 AMG: The most powerful 4-cylinder turbo engine in the world

I didn't miss your point at all. I never stated that the 2.0 FE had an extremely high PSI of peak boost--just that it is surprising for its class .


Looking at a similar engine, the GM 2.0l Turbo Ecotec LTG (as fitted in the Equinox), GM state ".. The turbo generates up to 20 pounds of boost..." It's rated at 252hp and 260lb/ft vs the Escape at 245hp and 275 lb/ft.
I understood your point originally. But you didn't appreciate my point--the peak boost of my 2.0 is may be surprisingly high for this class of vehicle in this state of factory tune..

With the exception of the Ecotech Equinox--all of your examples are high-performance applications. And as I stated in my original response to you--one has to consider the vehicle's factory tune--and that I am not stating that the 2.0 Escape has the highest possible PSI of boost-- but that it is surprisingly high for a non high-performance category/class of a normal use SUV.

The 2.0 Escape is not a high-performance vehicle/engine. The 2.0 Escape is not an AMG, nor Mustang, nor ST/RS class of vehicle. And it shouldn't be compared to high-performance vehicles.


I think we both understand this and agree.

I never considered the 2.0 EcoBoost to be a high-performance engine. Again--it is tuned for low and midrange performance--and for MPG. The increase of static compression ratio from 9.3 to 10.1 is a giveaway that the engine is tuned for low RPM MPG.

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post #24 of 28 Old 03-03-2019
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Originally Posted by phoneman91 View Post
I understood your point originally. But you didn't appreciate my point--the peak boost of my 2.0 is may be surprisingly high for this class of vehicle in this state of factory tune..

With the exception of the Ecotech Equinox--all of your examples are high-performance applications. And as I stated in my original response to you--one has to consider the vehicle's factory tune--and that I am not stating that the 2.0 Escape has the highest possible PSI of boost-- but that it is surprisingly high for a non high-performance category/class of a normal use SUV.

The 2.0 Escape is not a high-performance vehicle/engine. The 2.0 Escape is not an AMG, nor Mustang, nor ST/RS class of vehicle. And it shouldn't be compared to high-performance vehicles.


I think we both understand this and agree.

I never considered the 2.0 EcoBoost to be a high-performance engine. Again--it is tuned for low and midrange performance--and for MPG. The increase of static compression ratio from 9.3 to 10.1 is a giveaway that the engine is tuned for low RPM MPG.

The Mustang, RS, ST etc I threw in as examples of modern "performance" engines, which run higher boost.


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Originally Posted by phoneman91 View Post
18-21.7 PSI is pretty radical for an engine with this degree of factory tune.


The Equinox 2.0l Ecotec is in the same class and runs virtually identical boost levels as you've noticed in your twin scroll EcoBoost. So is it really "radical"?


You can also look at Mazda's 2.5T SkyActiv-G Turbo engine (fitted to CX-5, CX-9, Mazda 6.) It runs 10.7:1 compression ratio with boost pressures of up to 17.4PSI and operates on regular unleaded. Mazda have concentrated on boost at lower RPM (realistically where it's most beneficial in everyday driving) to increase torque. They've incorporated some interesting design features.



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post #25 of 28 Old 03-04-2019
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"The Equinox 2.0l Ecotec is in the same class and runs virtually identical boost levels as you've noticed in your twin scroll EcoBoost. So is it really "radical"?"


We both agree on the main point--21.7 PSI is high and few vehicles have it in this price range and class.And specific output.

The peak PSI of this Ecotec is still lower than what I experienced in my FE 2.0

Is my observed PSI peak of 21.7-- radical---for a utilitarian turbo SUV in this state of factory tune and price point? Yes. And your many responses and URLs have proven this point. And you only gave one same class example that came close--the 2.0 Ecotec--but even it was of lesser peak PSI.

And again--I am not stating that the static compression ratio of 10.1 is the highest in this class of 2 liter turbos--just that it was increased to increase low end torque and gas mileage at low speeds. But again--it isn't the lowest neither in this class.

And the Skyactiv class of engines are amazing engines--but the normally aspirated and turbocharged.

Enjoy your summer down there.

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post #26 of 28 Old 03-04-2019
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xxxx

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post #27 of 28 Old 03-04-2019
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Originally Posted by phoneman91 View Post
"The Equinox 2.0l Ecotec is in the same class and runs virtually identical boost levels as you've noticed in your twin scroll EcoBoost. So is it really "radical"?"


We both agree on the main point--21.7 PSI is high and few vehicles have it in this price range and class.And specific output.

The peak PSI of this Ecotec is still lower than what I experienced in my FE 2.0

Is my observed PSI peak of 21.7-- radical---for a utilitarian turbo SUV in this state of factory tune and price point? Yes. And your many responses and URLs have proven this point. And you only gave one same class example that came close--the 2.0 Ecotec--but even it was of lesser peak PSI.

And again--I am not stating that the static compression ratio of 10.1 is the highest in this class of 2 liter turbos--just that it was increased to increase low end torque and gas mileage at low speeds. But again--it isn't the lowest neither in this class.

And the Skyactiv class of engines are amazing engines--but the normally aspirated and turbocharged.

Enjoy your summer down there.

I don't agree it's a high/"radical" boost pressure- so please don't go putting words into my mouth. It's more of a standard level for modern engines and you need to realise you only saw a peak of 21.7 PSI. The very nature of a turbo waste gate (a spring loaded diaphragm opening and closing a mechanical flap to bypass excess exhaust gases) will result in peaks as it reacts to increased exhaust gas flow.


You do seem to have a fixation on the peak boost level- rather than the average (or sustained level of boost) which is what I have listed in previous posts.

https://www.fordescape.org/forum/eng...ock-eb-fe.html

https://www.fordescape.org/forum/eng...elevation.html


It's also Autumn here thanks.

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post #28 of 28 Old 03-05-2019
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Originally Posted by murcod View Post
I don't agree it's a high/"radical" boost pressure- so please don't go putting words into my mouth. It's more of a standard level for modern engines and you need to realise you only saw a peak of 21.7 PSI. The very nature of a turbo waste gate (a spring loaded diaphragm opening and closing a mechanical flap to bypass excess exhaust gases) will result in peaks as it reacts to increased exhaust gas flow.


You do seem to have a fixation on the peak boost level- rather than the average (or sustained level of boost) which is what I have listed in previous posts.

https://www.fordescape.org/forum/eng...ock-eb-fe.html

https://www.fordescape.org/forum/eng...elevation.html


It's also Autumn here thanks.
Well--yes--the highest PSI I saw was 21.7--it may go higher.And it wasn't a flash--that peak lasted the several seconds until I released the throttle. I was mainly interested with engineered "overboost". Before this became argumentative. I was passing on a two lane at the time with opposing traffic and didn't have time to experiment.

I wasn't as concerned with average. Average PSI and sustained PSI would be difficult to do a comparative analysis--because of the functions and variables of overall gearing ,vehicle weight engine load,RPM,engine temperature, ambient temperature , variable valve timing range ,cam shaft profile,ect. Peak allows the better way to compare--as most technical comparative discussions involve peak PSI among turbo engines of same displacement. Consider peak PSI like manufacturers consider peak horsepower and peak torque. They are a point of discussion and comparison for engines in the same class.

And enjoy your early autumn/late summer down there.It is - 1 degree F here in Colorado--deep in snow and has all of the appearances of deep winter.

And relax--and try not to get hung up boost ---sustained nor peak. You seem to have an informed viewpoint and I appreciate your opinions--I have learned much from this discussion.

You made my point multiple times--and I thank you for all of the background references that ended up supportive of my initial impressions. We both share the same appreciation of the Escape--I suspect.

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