2015 2.0 L Coolant Loss - Dealer Trying to Trick Me?

3289 Views 72 Replies 12 Participants Last post by MOONRNR, 5 d ago

Red_Chaos1

Discussion Starter · 30 d ago (Edited)

So I took my Escape in for service for a transmission leak, engine splash guard fasteners needing replaced, noticed coolant had begun disappearing when it never used to, some other minor things. I was worried I might have one of the EcoBoost engines with the stupid design, but most everything says that's in the 2016 and newer models. Advisor called me today and says they looked at the coolant issue first and found coolant in two of my cylinders coming from the head (so apparently I do have the stupid design in my vehicle). He then also claimed I was outside the recall window. Thing is, I bought this from a Ford dealership, and I never received a recall notice for it. Seems to me if it had the bad block, I should've received that or it should've been taken care of. The Advisor also claimed it was something they can't know by VIN, etc. which also sounds like a load of crap. Of course the replacement block is on major back-order, blah blah blah, I can see this is already headed towards suggesting getting a new vehicle, which I cannot afford.

Basically, I need to know if I am being BSed. Any useful advice on how to move forward with this would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: Okay, so it appears there is no recall on this issue (even though it seems there should be) so I have no idea why the advisor even mentioned that. It also appears the info I had that it normally affects 2016 and newer is wrong too, as it can happen on older 1.5L and 2.0L engines as well. Cool.

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MOONRNR

· #2 · 29 d ago (Edited)

The 2.0L RECALL ...

...er TSB(s) ...

... covered the 2nd GEN 2.0L OPEN DECK DESIGN ENGINE (first installed in ESCAPE 2017/ ). 2015 would have used a 1st GEN CLV CLOSED DECK ENGINE or a VEP ENGINE (SEMI-OPEN DECK).

There will be an ENGINE ID TAG on the rocker cover (RS) that will give you this info -

Product Font Material property Auto part Rectangle

You would have to have performed a complete engine analysis and a dealer is not the one to trust in this scenario.

READ THESE -

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10137115-9999.pdf

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10144937-9999.pdf

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Red_Chaos1

Discussion Starter · #3 · 29 d ago

MOONRNR said:
The 2.0L RECALL covered the 2nd GEN 2.0L OPEN DECK DESIGN ENGINE (first installed in ESCAPE 2017/ ). 2015 would have used a 1st GEN CLV CLOSED DECK ENGINE or a VEP ENGINE (SEMI-OPEN DECK).

There will be an ENGINE ID TAG on the rocker cover (RS) that will give you this info -

You would have to have performed a complete engine analysis and a dealer is not the one to trust in this scenario.

READ THESE -

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10137115-9999.pdf

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10144937-9999.pdf

Reading that first link jogs my memory a bit. There were 2 different times many many months back where I started the car up and it put out white-ish smoke (both times very far apart), but it didn't do it regularly and wasn't bluish, so I didn't think a lot of it. More recently I did start having issues with power loss when trying to accelerate (like I was running out of gas or something) and the check engine light would start flashing, the engine would start to run rough/performance would tank. By easing off the throttle it would go away within a minute and operate normally again but after 3 times it would stay lit. I got my BT OBD2 dongle and read the code, I believe it was P0303. I cleared it, it eventually happened again, so I did some reading on the code and did the easy thing: swapped the coil pack to cylinder 4 to see if the code followed and it did. I replaced the coil pack and the problem went away, so I figured it was just the coil pack. All of this was based on the prior "knoweldge" that the coolant leak issue couldn't be happening to my engine. WHen i get the vehicle back, I will check the noted label and I was already considering having someone else take a look, so it looks like that's my next stop.

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MOONRNR

· #4 · 29 d ago

More recently I did start having issues with power loss when trying to accelerate (like I was running out of gas or something) and the check engine light would start flashing, the engine would start to run rough/performance would tank. By easing off the throttle it would go away within a minute and operate normally again but after 3 times it would stay lit.

That is designed to protect the engine if it sees misfires. It cuts out different cylinders as to fuel delivery and allows it to pump only air to cool the engine. That is what you experienced.

If the CEL blinks, that is telling you to shut it down.

KY.BORN

· #5 · 29 d ago

MOONRNR said:
The 2.0L RECALL covered the 2nd GEN 2.0L OPEN DECK DESIGN ENGINE (first installed in ESCAPE 2017/ ). 2015 would have used a 1st GEN CLV CLOSED DECK ENGINE or a VEP ENGINE (SEMI-OPEN DECK).

There will be an ENGINE ID TAG on the rocker cover (RS) that will give you this info -

View attachment 83281

You would have to have performed a complete engine analysis and a dealer is not the one to trust in this scenario.

READ THESE -

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10137115-9999.pdf

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10144937-9999.pdf

What RECALL?? I think you mean just a TSB on the coolant intrusion for the 2017-19's...

corster

· #6 · 29 d ago

Check your engine ID to confirm which design you have - but if you have the old closed deck 2.0L, I'd be inclined to find a reputable independent shop for a second opinion before investing in a new long block.

The reason Ford replaces the block on the 2017-2020 2.0L instead of just replacing the leaky head gasket is because of the design flaw with the cooling slats that contributes to early head gasket failure - without a revised block, the problem will simply reoccur.

But if yours is the older closed deck design which doesn't have the cooling slats, and there's no cracks or other damage to the block itself, it might be overkill - even if the Ford textbook your dealer is following calls for it.

MOONRNR

· #7 · 28 d ago

KY.BORN said:
What RECALL?? I think you mean just a TSB on the coolant intrusion for the 2017-19's...

I think you are correct ...

NickSP

· #8 · 28 d ago

If I'm not mistaken, there were at least two posts made recently about pre 2017 2.0 engines with coolant leaks.

Red_Chaos1

Discussion Starter · #9 · 28 d ago

Okay, I have my car back, and the label on the engine says VEP amongst the other alphanumerics. The advisor said he did not know which 2 cylinders (as he had said in the call to tell me about it, the paperwork doesn't mention number of cylinders, just "cylinders") the tech found intrusion in, and it's not noted on the paperwork. The tech notes say "verified low coolant. pressure tested and found the coolant leaking into the engine cylinders. there is a TSB to replace the long block. customer decline repair at this time" He also tried to say that the only way they could figure it out is an engine tear-down, and at that point I would need a new engine anyway (which sounds ludicrous to me). I'm inclined to find my USB-C borescope and hook it up to my phone for a look-see in the cylinders myself. A friend of mine who is a bit of a gearhead has recommended a mechanic shop he trusts and goes to when he has something he doesn't feel like monkeying with, so I will probably take it to them after figuring out how long they think they'll have it and working out those logistics.

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NickSP

· #10 · 28 d ago

Red_Chaos1 said:
Okay, I have my car back, and the label on the engine says VEP amongst the other alphanumerics. The advisor said he did not know which 2 cylinders (as he had said in the call to tell me about it, the paperwork doesn't mention number of cylinders, just "cylinders") the tech found intrusion in, and it's not noted on the paperwork. The tech notes say "verified low coolant. pressure tested and found the coolant leaking into the engine cylinders. there is a TSB to replace the long block. customer decline repair at this time" He also tried to say that the only way they could figure it out is an engine tear-down, and at that point I would need a new engine anyway (which sounds ludicrous to me). I'm inclined to find my USB-C borescope and hook it up to my phone for a look-see in the cylinders myself. A friend of mine who is a bit of a gearhead has recommended a mechanic shop he trusts and goes to when he has something he doesn't feel like monkeying with, so I will probably take it to them after figuring out how long they think they'll have it and working out those logistics.

What does that mean, tsb for the long block? Is the dealer making you pay for the repairs? How much are they charging you?

Red_Chaos1

Discussion Starter · #11 · 28 d ago

NickSP said:
What does that mean, tsb for the long block? Is the dealer making you pay for the repairs? How much are they charging you?

Good question, I don't know. I only paid for the pressure test and labor, nothing else. The notes I quoted that mention the TSB are verbatim, there's nothing else and the advisor seemed to have little knowledge/info on this.

KY.BORN

· #12 · 28 d ago

Red_Chaos1 said:
Good question, I don't know. I only paid for the pressure test and labor, nothing else. The notes I quoted that mention the TSB are verbatim, there's nothing else and the advisor seemed to have little knowledge/info on this.

Question, Did you ever change the coolant?? The original is Orange..The replacement is the Ford Yellow type...The Orange is suspect of corrosion of the head gasket, since you have the VEP. engine block...

NickSP

· #13 · 28 d ago

KY.BORN said:
Question, Did you ever change the coolant?? The original is Orange..The replacement is the Ford Yellow type...The Orange is suspect of corrosion of the head gasket, since you have the VEP. engine block...

Is the orange coolant destroying only the Escape engines? If the orange coolant was the problem, it should have been a problem with a whole bunch of Ford cars across the board. Not trying to question you but simply raising a question.

KY.BORN

· #14 · 28 d ago

NickSP said:
Is the orange coolant destroying only the Escape engines? If the orange coolant was the problem, it should have been a problem with a whole bunch of Ford cars across the board. Not trying to question you but simply raising a question.

Good question, well that's what we are trying to deduce..Not all Ford engines used the same Orange , and some are V-6, V-8 and other 4 cyl. with different block designs..Maybe on other Ford boards they do mention this...I brought this up because even the VEP engines, are showing this problem. Maybe it a combo of problems, crappy gaskets, coolant, and block design or poor maintenance and or poor driving habits...

Red_Chaos1

Discussion Starter · #15 · 28 d ago

KY.BORN said:
Question, Did you ever change the coolant?? The original is Orange..The replacement is the Ford Yellow type...The Orange is suspect of corrosion of the head gasket, since you have the VEP. engine block...

I have not, as I had never needed to add coolant the entire time I've owned it and I've never done a flush or anything, dealer has never suggested or recommended that any of the times I've had the vehicle serviced. It has had the orange coolant the entire time, and it looks like they refilled it with the same orange coolant. If they didn't flush the coolant as part of the testing and the coolant in the reservoir cycles with the rest of the system when the vehicle is run, then it's possible they refilled with something else and it simply mixed with the existing coolant.

NickSP

· #16 · 28 d ago

Red_Chaos1 said:
I have not, as I had never needed to add coolant the entire time I've owned it and I've never done a flush or anything, dealer has never suggested or recommended that any of the times I've had the vehicle serviced. It has had the orange coolant the entire time, and it looks like they refilled it with the same orange coolant. If they didn't flush the coolant as part of the testing and the coolant in the reservoir cycles with the rest of the system when the vehicle is run, then it's possible they refilled with something else and it simply mixed with the existing coolant.

I think your best option is to work with the dealer and see if they eat the cost. Good luck.

harleyzx1400

· #17 · 28 d ago

It seems to me that you will have to get a new short block at least, unfortunately. I had the same problem on my 2019 at 26 500km, and fortunately it was under warranty so I received a new long block courtesy of Ford, after much muttering and testing.
It would appear that this problem is the luck of the draw, as some Escapes (Kuga's) in SA chug along merrily and have no problems, but some......!
A financial disaster for Ford, it must be costing them a fortune, but then, it is their stupid engine design.
Good luck with your vehicle, I hope Ford do the right thing.
FWIW, I took my 2.0 to Ford last week to change the orange coolant to the yellow stuff, and the idiots could not do it as they "did not have a special tool to drain the radiator". My local dealer has never changed the oil in a PTU or changed coolant in an Escape, besides when they remove the motor. They are just absolutely pathetic.
My last Ford, unfortunately, the dealer has ensured that with their useless attitude, and it is a pity, cause the car is perfect for my wife and I.

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wiz043

· #18 · 28 d ago

NickSP said:
If I'm not mistaken, there were at least two posts made recently about pre 2017 2.0 engines with coolant leaks.

That faulty block design began late 2016 and then on to mid 2019 by reports..

Red_Chaos1

Discussion Starter · #19 · 28 d ago

FWIW, I believe the TSB in question is likely this. It mentions all the things I have had over the past 2 years at least, except it only mentions the 2017-2019 Escapes. As I noted in an earlier reply after my memory being jogged a bit, I have had all of those symptoms at one point or another. A bit irritated at myself for not looking into the white smoke, that would've tipped me off a hell of a lot sooner. Since it only happened twice and very far apart and the car didn't start rough or have any other notable problems, I just didn't take heed of it. When I searched the P0303 code, nothing I found mentioned the possibility of coolant intrusion, so I tested it based on the diagnosis of a bad ignition coil. Problem went away with a new one, so I thought nothing of it.

As for getting a new engine, assuming it's not the bad block design and the fact the engine still runs smoothly otherwise, shouldn't I be able to just have whatever has allowed the intrusion (assuming it's not a crack) fixed/replaced? If it was coolant messing with the gasket, replace coolant/gasket, etc.

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jpohlman

· #20 · 27 d ago

The original DuraTech designed 2.0L EB were rock solid and coolant issues were few and far between.
I've never seen a TSB on those for short or long blocks.
The TSB's are for the 1.6L which had multiple recalls, the 1.5 L4 EB and the clean sheet twin scroll 2.0L EB from 2017-2019.

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