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2017 Titanium Stalling issues

9K views 20 replies 9 participants last post by  kwarren88.kw 
#1 ·
Hi All,

I apologize if this has been covered in a previous post, I did some sleuthing and I found similar posts, but they didn't appear to have the same P code as me. I have a 2017 Ford Escape Titanium (2.0L, AWD, 110Km's). Recently it has developed the following issues:

-stalls or idles very low/runs rough when coming to a stop. It essentially idles poorly (~500rpm, engine shaking) when in drive or reverse.
-given enough cycles of this, the computer will throw a P061b code. This code never persists, no CEL. It only shows up as a pending code on some drive cycles.
-engine is smooth on the highway, shifts well, has lots of power. No driveability issues, except when coming to/from a complete stop.

Things I have tried:
-Cleaned the MAP sensor (The one on the intake, can't reach the one on the intercooler)
-removed and cleaned the intake manifold (it was oily, but otherwise ok)
-checked for vacuum leaks (there were none that I could find)
-decarboned the intake valves (using a soak of seafoam and a little bit of scraping)
-cleaned the throttle body (seafoam, cloth)
-checked the air filter (it's nearly new, in great shape).
-replaced the plugs (it was due anyways, seems slightly more peppy afterwards).
-removed the tape on part of the wiring harness to inspect for chaffing (to address TSB regarding chaffed wires)

The only thing I have achieved by doing all of the above is that the engine doesn't seem to stall out as much, it just idles really low and shakes. It feels like a transmission issue, but I have no transmission related codes. Does this sound like a torque converter to anyone? Or the torque converter solenoid? If so, is there any additional diagnosis I can do to confirm it's the TCC or TCC Solenoid?

Thanks, Ivan
 
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#2 · (Edited)
It certainly seems that you know what you are doing and have covered just about everything connected with the P061B code.
A few other things on this link you may like to check.


Also, do you know if the transmission fluid has ever been changed?
 
#3 ·
Did some research online and my best guess is your Crank Position Sensor. There is one under the vehicle that you can check, I think.
 
#6 ·
People and I have had similar issues that were fixed by changing the transmission fluid. No matter how many miles you have, do that before chasing other issues. The fluid should probably be changed every 30K rather than recommended 150k. These transmissions are finky and cause issues when fluid becomes low or dirty.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the feedback! A few comments:

-I did clean the IAT
-Wouldn't the CPS or Camshaft sensor throw a code? I've put a lot of km's on it since this problem showed up, and there are no codes that could be related to this.
-I'll admit that I likely should have changed the fluid sooner, so I haven't looked into what fluid type this transmission takes. Are there any preferred or recommended fluids? If it is dirty fluid, and it's made it's way into the TCC, should I be doing some sort of flush instead of a simple drain and change?

Thanks, Ivan
 
#10 ·
About 4 qts,, I find between 4 1/4 and 4 1/2...Measure what you drain out and refill..but if you want to make sure, refill what you drained out and then warm it up and theres a plug by the drive shaft you remove while at idle in Park and let it drip out , then you know the proper level...There are lots of threads on this here.. Check them out first..
 
#12 ·
I have not yet changed the fluid, but I did fine a friend that has a much more fancy scanner, and we were able to pull some transmission data out, which I think confirms that I'm seeing a TCC that won't disengage:

79893


When the car is at very low speeds or stopped, there is a big difference between "Torque Converter Slip Actual" and "Torque Converter Slip Desired". The Torque Converter clutch solenoid has 0Kpa in this mode, which I think tells me that the PCM wants the clutch to be disengaged, but it's not happening. Here is what I plan to do:
-Change the fluid as per the directions found on this forum
-Repeat the above scans to see if anything improves

However, I'm not 100% confident that this will fix (until I try it, of course). Given that I have a better scanner, is there any other data I can glean from running more scans that can help me isolate the exact fault?

Thanks in advance, Ivan
 
#13 ·
A little bit of an update...after finally getting a new TCC solenoid (they are hard to find where I am!) I installed it, along with a fluid change. Unfortunately, the problem still occurs. At this point I'm thinking that the torque converter has failed, and it's stuck on. However, I'd like a more concrete diagnosis before I order parts and rip into it. I'm not afraid of removing and reinstalling a transmission, I've done it before on other FWD vehicles, but I want to be as sure as possible that is the problem before I begin.

Thanks, Ivan
 
#14 ·
Just to provide an update for anyone following this thread, it turned out to be torque converter after all. I first tried a transmission fluid change & TCC solenoid replacement. This wasn't enough, it didn't change the symptoms. I ordered a torque converter, and installed it. I took my time to ensure I didn't break anything. Runs like new now! Changing it out is not for the faint of heart though.

Thanks, Ivan
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#15 ·
Just to provide an update for anyone following this thread, it turned out to be torque converter after all. I first tried a transmission fluid change & TCC solenoid replacement. This wasn't enough, it didn't change the symptoms. I ordered a torque converter, and installed it. I took my time to ensure I didn't break anything. Runs like new now! Changing it out is not for the faint of heart though.

Thanks, Ivan
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Just to provide an update for anyone following this thread, it turned out to be torque converter after all. I first tried a transmission fluid change & TCC solenoid replacement. This wasn't enough, it didn't change the symptoms. I ordered a torque converter, and installed it. I took my time to ensure I didn't break anything. Runs like new now! Changing it out is not for the faint of heart though.

Thanks, Ivan
View attachment 80113 View attachment 80114 View attachment 80115

Sorry to resurect a thread a year or so old, but after a bunch of searching, this seems like it is the identical symptoms as what I am going through now. About a month ago, I picked up a 2016 Escape Titanium, 2.0 ecoboost, AWD, and just over 200K miles on it.

It idles in Park or Neutral fine (around 800 RPM), and while moving it seems fine as well. When you are stopped in gear (either D,S, or R) it shakes pretty violently and RPM drops to 500 or less, and as soon as I put in P or N, the RPM's jump up to 1500 and then settle back down to normal. I am also getting code P061B, Internal Control Module Torque Calculation Performance. Generic troubleshooting with this code seems to point to air cleaner and/or MAF sensor issues, so I was hoping it would be a somewhat simple/cheap fix. But then some more research shows there is no MAF on our generation Escapes, just MAP's and IAT.

But now after reading iblackford's posts, I would have to assume it is the torque converter. I do not have access to an engine reader that could read whether the torque converter was not following the PCM commands like he did, but I would be shocked if it was something else since our situations are so similar. I have removed and replaced engines, transmissions, and other major car repairs in the past, but I do not have a lift, and have recently had surgery, so doing a major job with jackstands may not be a reality now. I suppose I will have to bring it in to a dealer to #1 verify the torque converter is the issue, and #2 have to have them do the work ($$$ ouch). If anyone has any words of advise on something similar, let me know. If I thought a fluid change and/or torque solenoid would fix it, I would attempt that first, but I do not want to waste more time and money than needed.

Ironically, I picked this vehicle up because my 2012 F-150 ecoboost is having transmission issues, and the part (Lead Frame Connector) has been on back order so my truck has been sitting at the dealer for over a month. I guess when it rains, it pours. Thanks in advance for any info you can add.
 
#16 ·
Welcome to the forum.

Are you familiar with the program ForScan? It's free and that's all you will need to read all the stored fault codes (using a compatible OBD2 interface/ laptop or mobile.) That's a relatively cheap way to get any fault codes off your vehicle. It will help verify if you're getting similar readings.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the reply. I do not have ForScan, but I do have the Launch OBD II scanner, which does a lot but it won't read indepth live parameters, such as Torque Converter Slip, which lead iblackford to troubleshooting his torque converter was bad. I will look into whether ForScan does more than the scanner I already have, but if it's free, I am guessing probably not. I do not know when the previous owner last changed the tranny fluid, so I may do that just to eliminate that as a cause.
If anyone else has had the same symptoms and it turned out to be something besides the torque converter, please chime in.
 
#20 ·
I have not fixed it yet, but I am 99.9% sure it is the torque converter one way clutch that is the problem. Google "6F35 torque converter one way clutch" and you will see very similar examples of what I am experiencing. This video is a different vehicle (2017 Explorer) but has the same Ford auto transmission (6F35) and explains it well:


Since the fix is to replace or rebuild the torque converter, which is not all that pricey a part, but the real cost is the labor to remove the transmission from the vehicle, replace the torque converter, and re-install the transmission, I was quoted over $2K from Ford dealer just for labor to R&R the transmission. There are enough youtube videos out there on how to do it, so I am going to attempt to do is myself soon. Since my transmission has over 210K miles on it already, I am planning to swap out a used transmission i found at a local junkyard with only 85K on it, and it will come with a torque converter. I figured since the transmission is already out, why put a high mileage one back in. I will update when complete. Good luck.
 
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