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But you're only using ForScan to check the SOC- after leaving the vehicle sitting with everything off for the required period. You don't leave ForScan running while the vehicle is sitting there.

I just double checked the parameters for the calibration to take placed- it's <100mA for >3hrs. "The battery monitoring system requires calibration at regular intervals of no greater than 7 days. If a recalibration hasn't been done the exact SOC of the battery cannot be confirmed."

I also came across the bit mentioned elsewhere about "sulfation occurring if the battery is at more than 80% SOC" and I get the feeling they've made a mistake in the WSM. I think it's meant to say sulfation can occur when the battery is less than 80% SOC for a long period of time. The reason I think it's a mistake is they then go on to say a "refresh charge" is done to fix the risk of sulfation. The refresh charge involves charging the battery at a higher voltage of 15.2V. Charging the battery to a higher Voltage is going to raise the SOC higher than 80%- it doesn't make any sense to charge the battery at a higher voltage if >80% SOC causes sulfation. (Plus it goes against every other website regarding charging lead acid batteries and how to reduce sulfation taking place. The normal recommendation is to fully charge the battery as soon as possible after discharging it. You shouldn't store them partially discharged.)
If the vehicle is idle WRT load for the required amount of time I would concur. Not clear from OP that it was not clear about the Forscan load. At least that is how I read it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
Re: sulfation - my version of the WSM just says "these refresh phases are required when the battery charge status is 80% over long periods of time, which increases the risk of sulfation in the battery cells." I.e. typical equalization ("fourth stage") charging.

My original inquiry regarding the Forscan load was merely that I was unable to interrogate the system without the ignition on and therefore loads present in excess of 300mA, such that I was unable to monitor the SOC increment as a result of my external 4 Amp battery charger hookup. As soon as I turn the ignition off, Forscan shows that it is apparently polling live data, but it seems to hang at the last snapshot of data just prior to ignition switch off which suggests communications have ceased to that module the data is no longer live.

My WSM also states that:

"When it is required to charge the vehicle battery.......Do not connect the negative charger cable to the battery negative terminal. Connecting directly to the battery negative terminal bypasses the vehicle sensors, not allowing the battery monitoring sensor to detect the charge current."

and

"Charger Connected to Engine or Chassis Ground - Preferred Method:"

and after that as the non-preferable alternative that requires a re-learn of the battery SOC:

"Charger Connected to Battery Posts
NOTE: If equipped, the battery monitoring sensor must relearn the battery's state of charge after charging, refer to Battery State of Charge in section...
."

This, in sum, definitely directly states that the current sensor is supposed to be recording Ah in if topping off the battery with an external charger totally through the negative lead sensor. My observation has been quite to the contrary. Do our regional WSMs say different things?

Re: the battery overcharge remark in my last post, what I meant was that if the vehicle's estimated SOC is still low even after external charging, then a persistently high alternator voltage being called for to drive up the estimated SOC will aid in the reduction of battery life; moreover, the battery won't accept much bulk charge and so the low quantity of amp-hours in will not help fix the inaccurate SOC while the vehicle is operational; you must let it sleep for 8 hours. I have a 3 stage charger that had my new battery charged fully to 12.7V and took a good bit of bulk and absorption charging before hitting the 13.5V float voltage overnight. Regardless, the vehicle would only update the SOC to the correct ~98% estimated IF I leave the vehicle sleep, else it erroneously suggests that the SOC is still high 70% range, and calls for higher than necessary alternator voltage to reclaim charge to an already fully charged battery.

If the system, when asleep, behaves as clearly stated in the WSM quotations above, then the battery terminal sensor should capture every Amp-hour going into the battery and update the SOC just as I have seen it do when the engine is running and the alternator is the source of charging.

Either something's not right on my end, or the North American version of the WSM has some inaccuracies. With seemingly no parasitic draw on my vehicle, I suspect this SOC aberration is the source of early death on two OEM batteries in the space of 5.5 years. I will admit, it does get mighty hot under the hood, which won't do the battery any favors. It seems like clockwork that the first truly cold day every third winter marks the death of another battery. We will see.
 

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Re: sulfation - my version of the WSM just says "these refresh phases are required when the battery charge status is 80% over long periods of time, which increases the risk of sulfation in the battery cells." I.e. typical equalization ("fourth stage") charging.

My original inquiry regarding the Forscan load was merely that I was unable to interrogate the system without the ignition on and therefore loads present in excess of 300mA, such that I was unable to monitor the SOC increment as a result of my external 4 Amp battery charger hookup. As soon as I turn the ignition off, Forscan shows that it is apparently polling live data, but it seems to hang at the last snapshot of data just prior to ignition switch off which suggests communications have ceased to that module the data is no longer live.

My WSM also states that:

"When it is required to charge the vehicle battery.......Do not connect the negative charger cable to the battery negative terminal. Connecting directly to the battery negative terminal bypasses the vehicle sensors, not allowing the battery monitoring sensor to detect the charge current."

and

"Charger Connected to Engine or Chassis Ground - Preferred Method:"

and after that as the non-preferable alternative that requires a re-learn of the battery SOC:

"Charger Connected to Battery Posts
NOTE: If equipped, the battery monitoring sensor must relearn the battery's state of charge after charging, refer to Battery State of Charge in section...
."

This, in sum, definitely directly states that the current sensor is supposed to be recording Ah in if topping off the battery with an external charger totally through the negative lead sensor. My observation has been quite to the contrary. Do our regional WSMs say different things?

Re: the battery overcharge remark in my last post, what I meant was that if the vehicle's estimated SOC is still low even after external charging, then a persistently high alternator voltage being called for to drive up the estimated SOC will aid in the reduction of battery life; moreover, the battery won't accept much bulk charge and so the low quantity of amp-hours in will not help fix the inaccurate SOC while the vehicle is operational; you must let it sleep for 8 hours. I have a 3 stage charger that had my new battery charged fully to 12.7V and took a good bit of bulk and absorption charging before hitting the 13.5V float voltage overnight. Regardless, the vehicle would only update the SOC to the correct ~98% estimated IF I leave the vehicle sleep, else it erroneously suggests that the SOC is still high 70% range, and calls for higher than necessary alternator voltage to reclaim charge to an already fully charged battery.

If the system, when asleep, behaves as clearly stated in the WSM quotations above, then the battery terminal sensor should capture every Amp-hour going into the battery and update the SOC just as I have seen it do when the engine is running and the alternator is the source of charging.

Either something's not right on my end, or the North American version of the WSM has some inaccuracies. With seemingly no parasitic draw on my vehicle, I suspect this SOC aberration is the source of early death on two OEM batteries in the space of 5.5 years. I will admit, it does get mighty hot under the hood, which won't do the battery any favors. It seems like clockwork that the first truly cold day every third winter marks the death of another battery. We will see.
The way I interpret this is that required amount of rest hours are needed for proper interaction and calculation. Why, I have no clue. What the relationship between the sensor and the BCM is not given. From earlier post on patent, this is pretty darn complicated and as such, I defer to the WSM for direction. I have observed the same situation as you when I check SOC just after completing full charge as opposed to waiting for the required rest period. I have altered my battery trickle charge to complete by evening and leave car dorment all night in driveway.
 

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On page four of " Charging system - system operation and component description" (in my 2013 service manual, at the end of the first paragraph it states "The BCM monitors the battery state of charge using the battery monitor sensor."At the bottom of page 5 the manual describes what data the sensor gathers. It states it senses voltage current and temperature and this information is transmitted through the LIN circuit to the BCM. "The monitor has a two pin connector providing battery voltage (ground I assume) and LIN connections."
"the battery monitor sensor is an input to the Electrical Energy Management Software."

So my read into these statements is that the BCM is actually in charge of interpreting the data, making a decision as to what needs to happen and then telling the PCM What the alternator should do and then looking again at the data.
 

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I haven't checked what mine does while driving (re SOC), but an important bit in the WSM is:

"The battery monitoring system requires calibration at regular intervals of no greater than 7 days. If a recalibration hasn't been done the exact SOC of the battery cannot be confirmed."
To me, that says system is doing rough calculations- until it's just done a recalibration.

My original inquiry regarding the Forscan load was merely that I was unable to interrogate the system without the ignition on and therefore loads present in excess of 300mA, such that I was unable to monitor the SOC increment as a result of my external 4 Amp battery charger hookup.
You'd need to check it like I did- disconnect the charger and let it sit through the recal first. You do get a "live" reading of the SOC with ForScan running (ignition on/ engine off), I saw my SOC slowly dropping even with a 10 Amp charger connected.

Do our regional WSMs say different things?
I'm looking at the North American 2013 Escape WSM.
 

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I thought I would mention some interesting battery at rest non Escape voltages. In my home shop I have two of my not driven vehicles in somewhat winter storage. I have a 68 Torino Cobrajet which has a one year old 27F series battery in it and is attached to a 750 milliamp Battery Tender JR maintainer. It hasn't been touched not even a door opened for at least 90 days. It has nothing in it to draw any power that i would be aware of, not even a clock The at rest voltage was 13.1 volts at the battery post.
The other is an 03 Harley Davidson 100th Anniversary F150 with every bell and whistle for it's day it has an eight month old 65/850 series battery and a 1.5 Shumaker battery maintainer on it. again resting voltage not bothered at least 6 weeks was 12.92 volts. I'm sure it has a lot of memory voltage being used PCM, BCM, ATC,ABS, and SRS.

I do feel that both these battery maintainer manufactures know a little about battery algorithms to say the least. I have had great luck with both on all sizes of batteries and equipment. It seems to me that for long battery life they are trying to maintain a higher voltage than the stranded issue resting 12.5 to 12.6 volts.
 

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I have had great luck with both on all sizes of batteries and equipment. It seems to me that for long battery life they are trying to maintain a higher voltage than the stranded issue resting 12.5 to 12.6 volts.
Yes ideally (for long life) a lead acid battery should be left "float charging". The float charge voltage level maintains the battery at full charge. There's a lot of info on it here Charging Information For Lead Acid Batteries – Battery University

The battery tenders are designed to keep the battery near the float voltage. I should really be doing that with my Kuga as it can sit for a week at a time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Yeah, standard flooded lead acid batteries will be float charged at about 13.5V to combat self discharge and my understanding this can be held indefinitely.
 

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I feel the same way. I am retired and I may go a week without using the Escape. My wife's car is the same. It's a CTS and I doubt I have ever gotten much over three years out of a battery. Usually just past the warranty period and it,s a no start in the garage. I usually wire the 12 volt plug just outside the grill to attach the battery maintainers without having to open the hood.
 

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SOP for both of our cars. Retired, miles driven not much, and long periods of sitting in driveway.
 

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I just double checked the parameters for the calibration to take placed- it's <100mA for >3hrs. "The battery monitoring system requires calibration at regular intervals of no greater than 7 days. If a recalibration hasn't been done the exact SOC of the battery cannot be confirmed."
An update on this. I haven't been keen leaving my CTek 7Amp charger (with "tender" function) connected for long periods due to the temperature of the CTek's sealed plastic case. That's the temperature after it indicates the battery has been fully charged, usually left charging for 8-24hrs. I did leave it on for another day when we had cooler weather and noticed the Ctek case temperature was noticeably cooler- possibly indicating it was still charging well after it indicated the battery was full.

So, I decided to leave it charging for an extended period of time (~4 days) and just checked the SOC level with ForScan. I was expecting the SOC to be under 80% as I didn't think the BCM would have been able to do it's "calibration" (requiring <100mA for >3hrs), given the battery charger had been left connected. I was surprised to see my battery was sitting at an indicated 100% SOC. So it's either estimated the SOC using the charger's current input or it's been able to do the SOC calibration as the charger output was below 100mA?
 

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From all the info posted by people that doesn't appear to be the cause.


I don't want to drag this thread off the TSB topic. If it's the original battery then it is most likely the problem - even if it's tested okay.


This thread needs to stay on the TSB topic. What you've asked has been covered on one of the other battery threads - the Ctek is designed to operate so it can be left connected permanently. Also mentioned was just because the Ctek says your battery is fully charged doesn't necessarily equate with what the BMS system says the SOC is at.
True. However, my understanding is that it takes about 8 hours of idle time fir the BCM to “get the message” from the BMS that the battery has been fully charged. Additionally, the older the battery the less charge it is capable of holding. So an older fully charged battery may not reach the threshold to allow S/S.
 

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True. However, my understanding is that it takes about 8 hours of idle time fir the BCM to “get the message” from the BMS that the battery has been fully charged. Additionally, the older the battery the less charge it is capable of holding. So an older fully charged battery may not reach the threshold to allow S/S.
Today I set out to try and confirm/prove recent comments here regarding the BCM reaction to fully charging the battery with a battery charger and the subsequent effect on the stop/start system.
I do not wish to hijack this thread or wander too much from the subject but feel I should advise of my experience today connected with battery charging.
My battery is 4 years old and lately I always keep it connected to a trickle charger due to not using the car much as mentioned earlier.
Yesterday I disconnected the charger which was showing the battery was fully charged and went for a 15 mile drive. The stop/start feature did not work at all during my drive which I thought was strange as the battery was supposedly fully charged.
When I returned I left the charger off the car overnight and went for a short drive this morning and discovered that the stop/start feature was working again. :p
That tells me 2 things:-
1. Both you and @murcod were correct in saying that the BCM and BMS may not recognize the full charge from the battery charger as opposed to the alternator and in particular the battery may need to be left for 8 hours or so for the BCM to 'get the message' that the battery is now fully charged after disconnection from the battery charger which in turn would return the S/S feature to normal operation.
2. That my 4 year old battery still has some life in it and apparently is holding it's charge.

This may be handy for others here to know that are in a similar position.

Thank you both for your input. ;)
 
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Today I set out to try and confirm/prove recent comments here regarding the BCM reaction to fully charging the battery with a battery charger and the subsequent effect on the stop/start system.
I do not wish to hijack this thread or wander too much from the subject but feel I should advise of my experience today connected with battery charging.
My battery is 4 years old and lately I always keep it connected to a trickle charger due to not using the car much as mentioned earlier.
Yesterday I disconnected the charger which was showing the battery was fully charged and went for a 15 mile drive. The stop/start feature did not work at all during my drive which I thought was strange as the battery was supposedly fully charged.
When I returned I left the charger off the car overnight and went for a short drive this morning and discovered that the stop/start feature was working again. :p
That tells me 2 things:-
1. Both you and @murcod were correct in saying that the BCM and BMS may not recognize the full charge from the battery charger as opposed to the alternator and in particular the battery may need to be left for 8 hours or so for the BCM to 'get the message' that the battery is now fully charged after disconnection from the battery charger which in turn would return the S/S feature to normal operation.
2. That my 4 year old battery still has some life in it and apparently is holding it's charge.

This may be handy for others here to know that are in a similar position.

Thank you both for your input. ;)
Thank you for posting this. It confirms my own studies conducted in a similar fashion but not documented as nearly as well as yours. It also confirms what my owners manual (or shop manual) says. Finally, it confirms what several others have repeatedly pointed out: that use of a charger will indeed extend the life of a battery especially if the car is not driven enough to fully charge the battery.
 
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@ralph7up and @wiz043 I've moved your posts to here from the Field Service Action thread.

Have a read of some of the earlier posts. You don't need to leave the BMS system sitting for 8 hours for it to register/ update the charge from a battery charger. (In the manual it does mentioned 8hrs with less than x mA being drawn.) However, it will update the BMS SOC as the battery charges providing the negative of the charger is connected to the earth stud on the suspension tower- not directly to the battery negative. No need to disconnect the charger and leave the car/ battery sitting locked for 8hrs.
 

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@ralph7up and @wiz043 I've moved your posts to here from the Field Service Action thread.

Have a read of some of the earlier posts. You don't need to leave the BMS system sitting for 8 hours for it to register/ update the charge from a battery charger. (In the manual it does mentioned 8hrs with less than x mA being drawn.) However, it will update the BMS SOC as the battery charges providing the negative of the charger is connected to the earth stud on the suspension tower- not directly to the battery negative. No need to disconnect the charger and leave the car/ battery sitting locked for 8hrs.
Interesting. That is not the way I interpret section 414-00 for the WSM for my 2018. It suggests that it takes 4-6 hours for the computer to ascertain to a high degree what the battery SOC is when vehicle current is below 300 ma. Can you elaborate on your findings please?
 

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Interesting. That is not the way I interpret section 414-00 for the WSM for my 2018. It suggests that it takes 4-6 hours for the computer to ascertain to a high degree what the battery SOC is when vehicle current is below 300 ma. Can you elaborate on your findings please?
OMG - did you read page one of this thread and the last post above the moved posts? These BMS discussions keep rehashing the same thing over and over.
 
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In my case I have the negative clamp of the trickle charger connected to the negative earth stud as indicated in #35.
All I know is that when I left the charger disconnected overnight the stop/start feature began working again when I next drove the car the next day whereas it would not work the day before when I went for a drive just after disconnecting the charger which had been connected for days and indicated the battery was fully charged.
Probably a coincidence or a 'one off' or I did not give the BMS enough time to 'recognize' the full charge by driving off immediately after disconnecting the charger.

I know little about car batteries and only have basic knowledge of how the BCM and BMS work but just relaying what happened in my case. ;)

Just for info I have not yet reconnected the charger but the S/S system worked ok again today (a day later) when I went for a drive so the battery must be in reasonable condition hopefully.
In saying that I will be reconnecting the charger to keep the battery topped up as no doubt it will lose some charge if I don't drive the car for a few days or so.
 

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OMG - did you read page one of this thread and the last post above the moved posts? These BMS discussions keep rehashing the same thing over and over.
I did and if the thread had gone off track, I think it was a warranted move. I was actually seeking some additional information from you since your experience seems counter to my own and the way I read the WSM. Yup, maybe I am reading it wrong and would like more information from your situation now that the thread is in the correct location.
 
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