Joined
·
12 Posts
My '13 Escape Titanium 2.0 is nearing the 100k mark. Should I just do a drain & refill or flush? TIA for your thoughts.
Coolant drain & refill or flush?
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
I will inject this regarding coolant. There is a 'new thing' that happens with coolant in all the new/newer cars in the last 15-20 years. The radiators are now made of aluminum, not copper like times past. All the dissimilar materials in cars causes the antifreeze to become like a battery. The coolant will actually produce a voltage between the radiator core and battery/body ground. For THIS reason, it is very important to get your fluid changed. Not the color or anything like that. I have seen nearly 2 volts measured between radiator and ground in cars these days. This voltage is called "Electrolysis" whereby the voltage starts to etch or eat the radiator and internal parts of the water jacket, water pump, and other pieces. Also, you cannot mix coolant colors. Blue coolant gets blue fluid, not any other color and so on. I also own a Honda. When driving a Honda, and most other foreign cars, ASIAN Blue antifreeze is not American Blue antifreeze! The American fluid has silicates in it that reacts with the Asian blue fluid. It will help eat up the engine faster.
Life used to be simple, but not anymore. My own 2015 Escape Titanium has 72,000 miles on it and currently has about 50mv, (.05V), between body and the radiator core. I change it when it hits 75mv, (.075V) or more. That voltage varies some also as the engine is cold and hot. The electrical etching is real and not good for the car at all. Exterior is called rust. Internal is called corrosion, another word for rust. Oh yeah... don't think that grounding the radiator will solve that problem. That creates another nest of hornets.
Oh yes, and drain the coolant from your vehicle, not flush it. Some shops will power flush with water and air pressure. Great if you don't mind putting in a new heater core also. Unless you have a really valid reason to flush your system, then have a certified shop do it. Then when something bad happens, THEY are liable for the damage.
Life used to be simple, but not anymore. My own 2015 Escape Titanium has 72,000 miles on it and currently has about 50mv, (.05V), between body and the radiator core. I change it when it hits 75mv, (.075V) or more. That voltage varies some also as the engine is cold and hot. The electrical etching is real and not good for the car at all. Exterior is called rust. Internal is called corrosion, another word for rust. Oh yeah... don't think that grounding the radiator will solve that problem. That creates another nest of hornets.
Oh yes, and drain the coolant from your vehicle, not flush it. Some shops will power flush with water and air pressure. Great if you don't mind putting in a new heater core also. Unless you have a really valid reason to flush your system, then have a certified shop do it. Then when something bad happens, THEY are liable for the damage.
Joined
·
948 Posts
Where does it say 10 yrs???... My manual say first 6 yrs and then every 3yrs.. but I will drain , measure, and refill every 3yrs...since it says you can only get out about 80% anyway...So if you tried to flush, your not gonna be able to get all of the diluted water out and screw up the new 50/50 mix...What does the coolant look like?
My Escape service manual says change it every 10 years which seems crazy as with my older cars I used to change it every second service.
Things must have improved a heck of a lot with modern coolants.
If the coolant and reservoir bottle are pretty clean (preventative) then just a drain and refill is fine as long as you are consistent in how often you do it. That's why they recommend 3 years after the first time you "break the seal".
If the coolant looks like heck with particles floating all over the place or the reservoir has any type of skin or sludge, flush properly. This typically means bypassing the heater core to avoid blowing it out and then using a less pressurized stream to clean it by itself. If
Particles floating in your coolant can be a combination of mineral scaling and broken off bits of corrosion from within the cooling system. If it's there you should test for electrolysis (electrical conductivity) as well as checking all of your ground points.
I prefer using De-ionized water over distilled. De-ionized is completely neutral with respect to PH and has almost zero conductivity. Distilled is typically 91-95% pure water.De-ionized is 98% or better purity. How much conductivity depends on the quality of de-ionization process but, the worst de-ionzed water will typically be better than the best Distilled. Deionized is also the base used for most high quality coolants.
If the coolant looks like heck with particles floating all over the place or the reservoir has any type of skin or sludge, flush properly. This typically means bypassing the heater core to avoid blowing it out and then using a less pressurized stream to clean it by itself. If
Particles floating in your coolant can be a combination of mineral scaling and broken off bits of corrosion from within the cooling system. If it's there you should test for electrolysis (electrical conductivity) as well as checking all of your ground points.
I prefer using De-ionized water over distilled. De-ionized is completely neutral with respect to PH and has almost zero conductivity. Distilled is typically 91-95% pure water.De-ionized is 98% or better purity. How much conductivity depends on the quality of de-ionization process but, the worst de-ionzed water will typically be better than the best Distilled. Deionized is also the base used for most high quality coolants.
Sorry, my mistake...it wasn't in my manual. It was in my Ford service instructions.
Calculator
Calculate the maximum price of your service costs at a Participating dealer. Quotes are valid for 30 days.
www.ford.com.au
Your car is virtually the same as my aussie version apart from FWD so if you enter your car details on this link and enter a service period (say 45,000km) you will see a list of services and options including coolant change at 10 years. I rang my Ford dealer and queried this and he said "if it says it there it must be right".....to be expected I suppose..
I will certainly be changing it before then.
Couldn't find it in my owner's manual. Perhaps it's different here in Oz.
Joined
·
948 Posts
Sorry, my mistake...it wasn't in my manual. It was in my Ford service instructions.
Calculator
Calculate the maximum price of your service costs at a Participating dealer. Quotes are valid for 30 days.
Couldn't find it in my owner's manual. Perhaps it's different here in Oz.
[/QUOTE
I forgive you, but don't let it happen again ???
Adding De-ionized water is a good step. Just keep in mind that while in the engine, even that water will become conductive from the metals inside the engine mixing in it. The electrolysis action which happens within the coolant system is still there and real. While deionization removes most of the minerals and other inorganic ions, it does not affect organic substances or microbes. Distillation generally produces water of better purity, but might not remove volatile organic compounds. You still have to change the antifreeze when the voltage goes up.
http://www.rondavisradiators.com/tech.htm Read this link.
Electrolysis 101
Electrolysis 101 How to prevent | How to test for electrolysis | How to reverse flush | How to install products Welcome to Vehicle Enhancement Labs information page that will describe what electrolysis is and…
ve-labs.net
Understanding the Benefits and Risks of Deionized (DI) Water
There are some people who use deionized water in their home while there are some who are hesitant to buy water filters that can produce one for their family. This article aims to discuss what a deionized water is and how it is made. Also, this will tackle the benefits and risks of using it at home.
theberkey.com
Joined
·
716 Posts
Do an internet search on pH of de-ionized water and you might be surprised that the pH is typically 5.5, slightly acidic. I learned this decades ago; using cold water chillers to cool electronics of some very expensive analytical equipment (each instrument was half a million dollars, and you don't want to mess up the cooling coils to the electronics - very expensive and time consuming repairs).
Deionized water absorbs CO2 from the air and turns into carbonic acid. It's unavoidable.
Distilled, yes.
Deionized: Not good, as it can cause corrosion.
Joined
·
948 Posts
I see it , but I wouldn't believe it....Could be a mistake when they printed it....Also found it in my Ford dealer service booklet. 10 years or perhaps every 150,000 km (94,000 miles).
94,000 miles still too long methinks...
Obviously they make better coolant here in Oz...
Seriously though, we don't normally use antifreeze here as it never gets cold enough but I believe it is virtually standard in the US where your winters are so much colder.
I read somewhere it is the antifreeze that damages water jackets and radiators etc. over time and not the non antifreeze stuff although there are differing opinions on this.
I understand that you do not have to change the coolant in modern day cars anywhere near as often as you did in cars back in 'the olden days'. Even so, as you say, 10 years is an abnormally long time between coolant changes. I don't think it is a misprint because it gives the same info re the 10 year coolant change in two different sources, so who knows?
I think I will be erring on the side of caution though and changing it (without flushing) every 3 or 4 years as advised here in this forum.
You are actually much safer using quality antifreeze designed for YOUR specific vehicle. There are some anti-corrosion benefits of using quality antifreeze... as long as it is not contaminated after long-term use. It also increases water boiling point, which helps cool the engine as well as it is an efficient heat conductor. If your vehicle is designed to use Orange, Green, Yellow, or Blue antifreeze, then that is what you should use. Don't ever mix colors! Chemical reactions are really bad.
I believe the 10-years was stated "at that time". But as we all know, things are not the same now as they were even 5-years ago. More studies mean more changes can happen. I remember the days when you never changed antifreeze unless you had a serious cooling problem. The you took it to a shop and they would flush your system, in the reverse flow direction, with water and air pressure. I worked for a shop that specialized in that type of service. I probably did that to maybe a hundred cars myself.
I keep watch on the galvanic action of my antifreeze. I measure the voltage between the radiator core and body ground. When I see the voltage go up, the antifreeze comes out with a flush to make sure it's all gone. I do a simple flush today.
I did a drain and fill on my '16 recently. Put up a how to on here, its fairly straightforward and you'll get about 1/2 of the total capacity out or so. We have a salt water aquarium so we are equipped with an RO/DI water system to do water changes on it so it works well for mixing coolant as well. 0% TDS and deionized. Just be very careful with the drain cock on the radiator bottom, its all plastic and doesn't feel too robust so be gentle.
Ten year coolant life from the factory is fairly common. The Suzuki Kizashi I've also got came with 10yr coolant from the factory, 8 years on it hasn't been changed and everything is okay.
Actually both distilled and DI water can become acidic from the same CO2 absorption characteristic
and yes, that acidity can create corrosion. That’s why every 3 yrs after your first change is the recommended interval.Back in the drum-brakes-and-carburetor days, the antifreeze would loose its effectiveness over time. You would measure its specific gravity and when it got too low, it was time to change I still have a couple of throwaway cheapy testers. They look like eyedroppers with 5 balls of different densities stacked inside.You would draw coolant into the vile, and observe how many balls would float. All five meant the mixture was safe to -34ºF/-36.7ºC or lower; the fewer balls floating, the higher the freezing point. Recommended intervals were 2yrs or 24,000mi/38,000km.
Joined
·
169 Posts
I use a 50/50 pre-mix. I used to have well water that was high in calcium, with traces of other minerals, running through iron pipes. Now with 60 year old iron pipes, my water turn an ugly brown even with quality coolant after about a year. My thought was 50/50 used better water. I was right, my two most recent cars, you can still tell what color the coolant is.
For those using straight water, I hope you are using an additive that has a lubricant for the water pump, and breaks down the surface tension of the water. Something like Water Wetter. It raises the boiling point.
For those using straight water, I hope you are using an additive that has a lubricant for the water pump, and breaks down the surface tension of the water. Something like Water Wetter. It raises the boiling point.
Digging up an old thread. Thought the subject was more appropriate than posting here: Coolant Color? So, correct me if I'm wrong, if you do just a drain instead of a complete flush then you are still leaving the old (mine's orange) antifreeze/coolant in the heater core and some in the engine block. Anyone measure EXACTLY how much drains out or how much they used to refill? I'm assuming what's left is still a ~50/50 mix. My 2.0l coolant capacity is 9.7 qt. If ~50% drains out then I would need ~4.9 qt of a 50/50 mix. This would require 2-4 qt jugs, since I have not found any retailer that sells quarts; or if you know exactly how much you drained out you could purchase a 1 gal jug concentrate and mix it 50/50 with water.
And if I just did a drain is the Motorcraft orange stuff that's left compatible with Peak or Prestone antifreeze/coolant?
And if I just did a drain is the Motorcraft orange stuff that's left compatible with Peak or Prestone antifreeze/coolant?
Joined
·
169 Posts
I saw a video on YouTube that was mentioned somewhere in these forums, from a guy that a lot of people seemed to trust. He said the new yellow Motocraft Coolant is backwards compatable, and the best for the engines that are out there now.
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!