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Check your sources: 2020 JD Power Dependability Study
Ford 126
Ram 140
Dodge 158
Industry Average 134

Therefore, Ram is RANKED lower than Ford.
Luckily Ram is cheaper ;) Man when I got my truck last year, Ford had no deals and for a base f150 crewcab 4x4 with only heated seats and remote start, 55k. GM had a 5k off so 50k, ram classic as 34k without negotiating. I've heard FCA has better customer service ratings, but I haven't had to use them yet with my Jeep or Ram... However that 4th gen ram has been built since what 2013 and you see them freaking everywhere. ?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I did not see that particular report. Not that it matters, these things are flawed by design, since they do not rank the issues. A problem which has to do with operator error (my BlueTooth won't connect), are given equal weight with real issues, such as the abysmal transmission problems in the 2020 F150 10 speed, dating back to 2017 and the subject of a class action lawsuit.


This is the main reason I am (or soon will be) a former Ford owner, to never return. They just don't respond when problems arise. This issue still exists, despite originating in 2017. Much like the Escape, with a well documented cooling system issue dating back to at least 2013. It is not clear to me that they have corrected it and if they have, then why have they not issued a recall to fix it in earlier vehicles? It seems that if it is not a safety issue, they (and other manufacturers) feel like they can get away with it. I'm just tired of the mentality is all.

I have been unable to find such glaring problems (transmission) reported with the RAM, so as you can see, you have to take this stuff with a grain of salt. In any event, a ranking of 126 for Ford vs. 140 for RAM does not concern me. It is statistically insignificant. Just glad I didn't buy the GMC Sierra :oops:. I did consider it,but the ride and powertrain quality were not comparable to the RAM. Just lucky I didn't buy one, I came very close. I guess I'll do more research next time. I am comfortable with the RAM. Then again, I am comfortable with the RX8, so who can trust my judgement?

To be fair, I did not consider the F150 primarily due to the transmission problems. I have two friends who have them and they have experienced numerous issues and advised against my considering the F150. The issues with the Escape didn't help, but the real reason was the F150 known problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Luckily Ram is cheaper ;) Man when I got my truck last year, Ford had no deals and for a base f150 crewcab 4x4 with only heated seats and remote start, 55k. GM had a 5k off so 50k, ram classic as 34k without negotiating. I've heard FCA has better customer service ratings, but I haven't had to use them yet with my Jeep or Ram... However that 4th gen ram has been built since what 2013 and you see them freaking everywhere. ?
There are definitely a lot of them out there, but Ford F150 remains the largest seller. The clincher for me was the changes they made to the rear suspension for 2019. No one else comes close to the ride and we plan to spend a lot of time on the road.
 

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I hope your truck works out for you better than your Escape. Anyway, this thread is not to compare the F150 and Ram trucks. If you want to continue this discussion, then please create a new thread in the other vehicle discussion section of the Forum.
 

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One other thing you would notice in these forums is the 1.6 also had some cooling system issues. Sounding more and more like the previous owner didn't do any maintenance on it, and you got stuck withe results. For some battery issues, on these forums you will find that ground wires can get knocked or vibrated loose. I'm the third owner on my '14. I know maintenance was done on it. My sister was going to buy it from her boss when the lease was up, so she made sure it was kept up, then the two years she had it, then I bought it, when she bought the boss' next one. He still has an Escape today. Then only "weird" problem I had with mine was the auto rain sensing/delay wipers didn't work. Should have been fixed under warranty, but neither my sister, or her boss eer use the delay wipers, so they never knew the system was broke. You wouldn't design the car that way, and I can understand that. But, you don't have people breathing down your neck saying, make it less expensive, make it smaller, make it lighter, but make it fun to drive, make it safer, and idiot proof. Tall order nowadays.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I am done. I really didn't want to get into that discussion, it just kind of happened.

The tragedy here is that I decide on the Escape after driving all the competition, so without checking reviews, etc, it was my first choice. I only wish Ford would do a better job of supporting their products. Probably no worse than any of the other major players, but it seems somehow we customers no longer matter.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
One other thing you would notice in these forums is the 1.6 also had some cooling system issues. Sounding more and more like the previous owner didn't do any maintenance on it, and you got stuck withe results. For some battery issues, on these forums you will find that ground wires can get knocked or vibrated loose. I'm the third owner on my '14. I know maintenance was done on it. My sister was going to buy it from her boss when the lease was up, so she made sure it was kept up, then the two years she had it, then I bought it, when she bought the boss' next one. He still has an Escape today. Then only "weird" problem I had with mine was the auto rain sensing/delay wipers didn't work. Should have been fixed under warranty, but neither my sister, or her boss eer use the delay wipers, so they never knew the system was broke. You wouldn't design the car that way, and I can understand that. But, you don't have people breathing down your neck saying, make it less expensive, make it smaller, make it lighter, but make it fun to drive, make it safer, and idiot proof. Tall order nowadays.
This cooling system issue has nothing to do with how the vehicle was maintained. I cannot imagine how a lack of maintenance could cause a problem that the dealerships cannot figure out. This was a Ford certified used vehicle which had all previous maintenance records provided. It was sold (lease) and serviced by the dealer I bought it from and all the recommended services had been performed during the period of time before I bought it. Also, the battery issue had nothing to do with maintenance, it can only be attributed to lousy design of probably both the Ford battery and the ridiculous battery maintenance system. The battery was replaced by a Ford dealer only 29 months ago. At least it was under warranty, but as I said before, I've been driving for 50 years and this is the first time I have had a battery fail in 29 months. This is the second replacement battery in a car that is only 7 years old. BTW, if there was a focus on making cars cheaper, then they would not apply resources to ridiculous features like the battery maintenance system. I am really miffed by this one. Not sure it is to blame for the short battery life, but it certainly didn't extend it. What a waste of engineering hours. Maybe they could have diverted that labor to focus on the cooling system and made a real positive difference. The bottom line here is that the car was completely dead. It must be the on board computer that shut it down, since all I did was connect a charger and as soon as it saw the higher voltage, it enabled it once again. The car started instantly, despite the fact that the charger (10AMP, no boost or start assist feature) was connected for less than a minute. Clearly it could not have had any effect on the charge level of the battery. This is the kind of stuff that infuriates me. All it does is cause the car to be less reliable without adding anything useful, just more complexity. The first time it did this (29 months ago before the battery was replaced the first time), my wife had driven about 10 miles, so it was completely warmed up. Stopped for gas and it would not start. Clearly, the battery would have been able to start the car if it had been allowed to. Word has it that part of the reason they did this was to protect the starter from low voltage, which under a load can cause it to overheat. Personally, I'd rather have an overheated/damaged starter than be stranded due to a decision made by the on board computer. Thankfully, she was not in a remote area and the weather was not life threatening. The important thing to consider is, it could have been.
 

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This cooling system issue has nothing to do with how the vehicle was maintained. I cannot imagine how a lack of maintenance could cause a problem that the dealerships cannot figure out. This was a Ford certified used vehicle which had all previous maintenance records provided. It was sold (lease) and serviced by the dealer I bought it from and all the recommended services had been performed during the period of time before I bought it. Also, the battery issue had nothing to do with maintenance, it can only be attributed to lousy design of probably both the Ford battery and the ridiculous battery maintenance system. The battery was replaced by a Ford dealer only 29 months ago. At least it was under warranty, but as I said before, I've been driving for 50 years and this is the first time I have had a battery fail in 29 months. This is the second replacement battery in a car that is only 7 years old. BTW, if there was a focus on making cars cheaper, then they would not apply resources to ridiculous features like the battery maintenance system. I am really miffed by this one. Not sure it is to blame for the short battery life, but it certainly didn't extend it. What a waste of engineering hours. Maybe they could have diverted that labor to focus on the cooling system and made a real positive difference. The bottom line here is that the car was completely dead. It must be the on board computer that shut it down, since all I did was connect a charger and as soon as it saw the higher voltage, it enabled it once again. The car started instantly, despite the fact that the charger (10AMP, no boost or start assist feature) was connected for less than a minute. Clearly it could not have had any effect on the charge level of the battery. This is the kind of stuff that infuriates me. All it does is cause the car to be less reliable without adding anything useful, just more complexity. The first time it did this (29 months ago before the battery was replaced the first time), my wife had driven about 10 miles, so it was completely warmed up. Stopped for gas and it would not start. Clearly, the battery would have been able to start the car if it had been allowed to. Word has it that part of the reason they did this was to protect the starter from low voltage, which under a load can cause it to overheat. Personally, I'd rather have an overheated/damaged starter than be stranded due to a decision made by the on board computer. Thankfully, she was not in a remote area and the weather was not life threatening. The important thing to consider is, it could have been.
Only 50 years? ?
And yes I would consider the cooling system maintenance since there are many people who had their engines replaced when taken to a reputable dealership or contacted Ford directly. And "coil overs" aren't exactly revolutionary. MacPherson struts are just tall coil overs. This application maybe, but they have been around so long it makes my wonder what has prevented them from being used.
 

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Op, sounds like you have had some frustrating experiences. I am sure we can all relate to them either from a particular vehicle, or brand of vehicles we've owned in the past. For me, it's GM. Anything GM. Can't pay me to buy one ever again.

One thing I have seen with Ford (as with most mfg's) is that first year model vehicles have more problems than subsequent year. That does not necessarily apply in this case with the coolant issues these cars have for the 1.5/1.6L where it crosses multiple years. Perhaps a different dealer to help with that issue might be in order. Like cars, not all dealers are the same. There are three here in Phoenix south east valley. One I will never do business with again, one is my go-to for anything that is over my head, and one is a back-up to my preferred dealer.

With respect to the mfg's and the lack of addressing how to FIX the problem vs shoving it off (unless it is safety related), you should see the debate on this forum about class action lawsuits. I for one would agree with you in that the mfg won't issue a recall for non-safety related items. They assess the financial risk vs payoff and move forward based on that. Financial risks takes into account lawsuits.

From an engineering perspective I would have to disagree with you on "crappy design". (Except for the battery placement....that is crappy) It's usually using materials that aren't up to the task of the design requirements or a process that is shortcut-ted that weakens a part that would otherwise be just fine for the job at hand. Accountants play in this arena. Having gone from a family-owned business to a corp now, I've seen this kinda stuff going on.

Engineer: Hey so we fixed the problem where the heads expansion/contraction would cause a coolant leak. It costs a bit more than the $30 per vehicle that we were thinking so, I need your approval for the extra $20
Accountant: Great, we see that head gasket and head finishing process adds $50 to the bottom line cost of that part. We want you to shave off $30...no no no $40 from it. Make it a $10 fix.
Engineer: But....that would still be likely to cause a problem down the road
Accountant: How far down the road?
Engineer: We estimate within 3-5 years instead of like...never
Accountant: That's workable! Hey Rachel (company actuarial), run the numbers and see how much it could cost us with failures for warranty after year 4 vs the number of sales. Oh and throw in a possible multi-million dollar class action.
Accountant to Engineer: She's really good with this stuff! We don't care about anything beyond this year or next years numbers. We can play with the figures as much as we need to push a few pennies (Millions) to the boxes they need to go in, to look good for the share holders.
Rachel: Ran the numbers, we're looking at $x millions in liability
Accountant does some rough numbers on his computer, continues to look at screen and exclaims: Great, that's under our 3% liability for year-over-year numbers.
Looks at Engineer, waits a few seconds... - What are you still doing here? Find the other $40!
 

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There are definitely a lot of them out there, but Ford F150 remains the largest seller. The clincher for me was the changes they made to the rear suspension for 2019. No one else comes close to the ride and we plan to spend a lot of time on the road.
You must of got the 5th gen, redesigned 2019? Ya ford sells the most, but when it comes down to it, I'm not brand loyal, I'm reliability, bang for buck and cost loyal ;) My used Jeep rubicon was worth the same as my new truck...man that was a nice trade.

Check out alfaodb if you want to add or change any features on your rig. I've added the oem cargo camera, DRL's, led lights, trailer brake, etc. Uconnect works pretty darn nice too. At least sync3 is nice, but my sync2 is super meh compared to uconnect which feels more like GM's with the android like UI.
 

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BMS have been introduced in order to meet compulsory average fuel economy figures see Corporate Average Fuel Economy , the same with Stop/ Start systems. Neither system will do a lead acid battery's life any favours IMHO.

Battery hard to access- yes (but it's probably not the only modern vehicle like that.) That's also something that's very easy to assess before you purchase the vehicle. Why is it there- some reasons I can think of- better weight distribution and a safer location if you're involved in a major accident. Have you checked the battery terminal clamps for corrosion? A common problem that can cause issues and certainly not Ford specific.

Have all the recalls been done on your 1.6l EcoBoost?
 
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Speaking of other mfgs that aren't know to have "as many" issues...here's one that just popped up. Toyota is actually doing a recall...
Toyota and Lexus Recall Cars to Replace Engines

This comment in the article was the most profound and relevant to this thread:

dennis

dennis10 minutes ago
Ford: let’s cover up this recall and just payout for wrongful death claims its so much cheaper

Toyota: there was a problem with the gauge that cast aluminum engine blocks. Let’s recall them.
 

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Speaking of other mfgs that aren't know to have "as many" issues...here's one that just popped up. Toyota is actually doing a recall...
Toyota and Lexus Recall Cars to Replace Engines

This comment in the article was the most profound and relevant to this thread:

dennis

dennis10 minutes ago
Ford: let’s cover up this recall and just payout for wrongful death claims its so much cheaper

Toyota: there was a problem with the gauge that cast aluminum engine blocks. Let’s recall them.
Apparently dennis10 hadn't heard about Ford's latest recall regarding potential suspension issues in almost a quarter million vehicles. Or how the gen 1 Focus held the title for most recalls for a vehicle.
 

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This is getting crazy now. One person joins, if I remember the times right from his OP, just to bash a car that he didn't research enough, and now we're at each others throats. Most of us are here because we like our car and want to keep it. The minority need info to keep it going, even if they would rather have something else. Agreed? Time to move on.
 

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The failure of Ford to find a solution is the real problem here. As you say, all vehicles have issues. It is really quite amazing how reliable they are with how complex they have become. My irritation is really with how the manufacturer has failed to respond. It is said that bad things happen in all industries, it is how you respond to problems that sets you apart. I'd say, based on the number of posts for battery and cooling system issues, Ford has definitely set themselves apart, just not in a good way.
sounds like your cooling off now, and had a pretty good vent.
ya the batteries suck. i've had to prematurely replace mine. ya the coolant tank sucks. I've only had to top up once, and it was aweful. the cooloant loss should be fixed, and it inexcusabel that your dealer(s) can't address that. I do believe all manufacturers have their problem, so you might end up with similar elsewhere. Hope the truck works out well for you. I'm envious of being able to retire and tour the countryside.

cheers.
 

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I am wondering if this thread has run its course. All that is happening now is comparisons between recalls with different manufacturers.
 

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This is getting crazy now. One person joins, if I remember the times right from his OP, just to bash a car that he didn't research enough, and now we're at each others throats. Most of us are here because we like our car and want to keep it. The minority need info to keep it going, even if they would rather have something else. Agreed? Time to move on.
We're at each others throats? Interesting perspective.

I do agree, it's probably best to lock this thread though since there is not really anything else constructive going on and most likely won't have.
 
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