Getting Escape PHEV... newbie charging questions

12699 Views 40 Replies 17 Participants Last post by kenton.zandee, 5 mo ago

aricboger

Discussion Starter · Dec 14, 2021

Hello all. First time dabbling into the EV world and ordering an Escape PHEV this week. Had a couple charging-related questions and stumbled upon this forum when trying to find info online.

1. What is the level of amps drawn by the level 1 charger that comes with the Escape? Asking because my garage outlets are on a 15 amp breaker, so if it's 12 amp charger I should be able to use the level 1 hardware when needed. If it's a 15 or 16 amp charger (requiring a 20 amp breaker), I'd have to replace the 14-guage wiring in the garage to be able to swap out the 15 amp breaker for a 20. Full disclosure: I recognize the low charging speed of level 1, this is purely a technical question about the amperage of Ford level 1 charger that i wasn't able to confirm anywhere on my own.

2. My local Ford store says it'll be $800 for their level 2 charger. My father-in-law got that unit for his Escape he got a few months ago and loves it. However I'm debating getting a Grizzl-E Duo instead of the Ford one because I'm planning to buy a full EV in the next 2-3 years (the Escape will be my wife's vehicle; I want a VW ID.4). The Grizzl is only $100 more and any difference in the cost of installation would be negligible. This would allow for ability to charge 2 vehicles simutaneously (albeit at reduced speed when doing two), which seems like a value-add in a garage with two EVs around. The Grizzl is also a 40-amp unit compared to 32 amps on Ford's, so a little faster charge capability. Curious as to others' thoughts on this plan and/or any strong views on the Grizzl brand in general?

Appreciate the feedback.

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

Donrim

· #2 · Dec 15, 2021

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The level 1 charger included with the Escape draws 12 amps.

It would be a good idea to replace the duplex receptacle in your garage used for the charger with a new heavy duty grade receptacle. Also, make sure you wrap the copper wires around the receptacle screw terminals and tighten them securely. Don’t use the less-robust push-in wire connections on the receptacle.

A worn outlet, or one with corroded loose connections can overheat with the charger’s sustained high current draw over several hours.

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D.C

· #3 · Dec 16, 2021

I bought a 2021 Escape Titanium PHEV. Initially I wanted to get a level 2 charger as I thought I needed one. I shopped and compared, picked one of the best, then asked for a quote for installation. I was impressed by the high cost to install it - particularly since I have a second electrical panel in the garage. It is amazing to see how expensive electrical wires are today! Then I did the math and concluded that I did not need a level 2 charger. One thing they don’t tell you is that even if you have a super fast charger, the speed of charging is limited by what the car take. You can cut the time to charge by about half.

During the work week, I usually drive less than 30 miles/day – thus all electric. If the battery is depleted, it charges overnight using a regular 120 volt outlet. If not depleted, then it gets fully charged much faster – very often before I go to bed. During the weekend, I drive a bit more. May do some shopping, get back home, plug it, go back shopping, etc. So I may do 40-50 miles electric with my level 1 charger. And if I would go for a short trip and drive a few 100 miles over the weekend, having a level 2 charger back home would not help unless I buy a super long extension cord.

In normal (non-covid) time, I would drive long distance on a more regular basis. Having a level 2 charger at home would not help much when I am away from home. So I concluded that in my case, a level 2 charger would make me save probably a few dollars per month. Therefore it is not worth it for me. Your needs may be different.

So far, I have driven over 600 miles – all electric except for a few miles.

BTW, if you drive 30 miles electric every day, that is 10,950 miles electric at the end of the year. So look at how many miles you drive in a year. The first 10-11,000 miles could be all electric, the rest with gas. PHEV makes so much sense. Full electric is difficult to justify.

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WSGosset

· #4 · Dec 16, 2021

D.C said:
I bought a 2021 Escape Titanium PHEV. Initially I wanted to get a level 2 charger as I thought I needed one.... I concluded that in my case, a level 2 charger would make me save probably a few dollars per month. Therefore it is not worth it for me.

I have had a similar experience. I was all ready to get an L2 (and it would have been made very easy by an existing 220V outlet used for a kiln by the previous owner of the house), but after 3+ months, overnight 110V charging has been absolutely sufficient for our needs. The only time I think it would be helpful is the rare times when we run a bunch of errands on a Saturday morning, but then have to go somewhere in the afternoon/evening. An insufficiently common event that I'm content to use a gallon or two of gas to cover the shortfall in EV miles.

Reactions: 3

aricboger

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 16, 2021

Donrim said:
The level 1 charger included with the Escape draws 12 amps.

It would be a good idea to replace the duplex receptacle in your garage used for the charger with a new heavy duty grade receptacle. Also, make sure you wrap the copper wires around the receptacle screw terminals and tighten them securely. Don’t use the less-robust push-in wire connections on the receptacle.

A worn outlet, or one with corroded loose connections can overheat with the charger’s sustained high current draw over several hours.

Much appreciated, thank you for the pic and suggestions.

aricboger

Discussion Starter · #6 · Dec 16, 2021

D.C said:
I bought a 2021 Escape Titanium PHEV. Initially I wanted to get a level 2 charger as I thought I needed one. I shopped and compared, picked one of the best, then asked for a quote for installation. I was impressed by the high cost to install it - particularly since I have a second electrical panel in the garage. It is amazing to see how expensive electrical wires are today! Then I did the math and concluded that I did not need a level 2 charger. One thing they don’t tell you is that even if you have a super fast charger, the speed of charging is limited by what the car take. You can cut the time to charge by about half.

During the work week, I usually drive less than 30 miles/day – thus all electric. If the battery is depleted, it charges overnight using a regular 120 volt outlet. If not depleted, then it gets fully charged much faster – very often before I go to bed. During the weekend, I drive a bit more. May do some shopping, get back home, plug it, go back shopping, etc. So I may do 40-50 miles electric with my level 1 charger. And if I would go for a short trip and drive a few 100 miles over the weekend, having a level 2 charger back home would not help unless I buy a super long extension cord.

In normal (non-covid) time, I would drive long distance on a more regular basis. Having a level 2 charger at home would not help much when I am away from home. So I concluded that in my case, a level 2 charger would make me save probably a few dollars per month. Therefore it is not worth it for me. Your needs may be different.

So far, I have driven over 600 miles – all electric except for a few miles.

BTW, if you drive 30 miles electric every day, that is 10,950 miles electric at the end of the year. So look at how many miles you drive in a year. The first 10-11,000 miles could be all electric, the rest with gas. PHEV makes so much sense. Full electric is difficult to justify.

Thanks. All that makes sense. If my EV plans consisted of PHEV only, highly likely I'd end up at the very same conclusion (or at least try it out for a while with level 1 only and see if a true need for level 2 arose). But I was thinking ahead to a couple years down the road when the next vehicle in our 2-car household will almost surely be a full electric (I'm in love with the ID.4). The downside of doing a level 2 today is that I suppose its possible for charging technology to explode in the next 2 years and I've either majorly overpaid today for what I need in 2 years and/or the technology is outdated/insufficient for EVs made in a couple years.

jpohlman

· #7 · Dec 17, 2021

Actually there's been another post on the forum about 40A chargers not working unless they were dialed down to the Ford 32A maximum.

LittleRedE

· #8 · Dec 17, 2021

Donrim said:
......
The level 1 charger included with the Escape draws 12 amps.

It would be a good idea to replace the duplex receptacle in your garage used for the charger with a new heavy duty grade receptacle. Also, make sure you wrap the copper wires around the receptacle screw terminals and tighten them securely. Don’t use the less-robust push-in wire connections on the receptacle.

A worn outlet, or one with corroded loose connections can overheat with the charger’s sustained high current draw over several hours.

I agree - I would suspect that charging takes more than a few minutes. Personally, if I were using the 120 volt charger (level 1), I'd set up a dedicated (not shared with other large loads like power tools or appliances) outlet using a heavy duty 20 amp receptacle, with #12 copper all the way back to a 20 amp breaker, dedicated to the outlet. If the breaker box is in the garage like mine, that's a fairly easy task. If it's on the other end of the house, you might consult an electrician about using a slightly larger gauge wire (say, #10), or running a larger 240 volt circuit to a separate breaker box in the garage to allow setting up a charging outlet at level 2, or other large power tools and such at a later date.

There may be national electrical code rules for this already - if not, I'd treat it like a microwave oven circuit, meaning it shouldn't be shared with anything else.

Reactions: 1

aricboger

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 17, 2021 (Edited)

jpohlman said:
Actually there's been another post on the forum about 40A chargers not working unless they were dialed down to the Ford 32A maximum.

If you know which thread that is, could you share the name or link? I'd be interested in reading about that and didn't find it on first glance. Thanks.

jpohlman

· #10 · Dec 17, 2021

www.fordescape.org

40+ amp chargers not working with the Escape PHEV

I discovered that using a last gen Grizzl-E home charger that can now do 40 amps and comes with dip switches factory defaulted to 40 amps will NOT charge an Escape PHEV. The charger stays in the "vehicle detected" status but the Escape never starts the charge session. I had to change the dip...

www.fordescape.org

www.fordescape.org

howie411

· #11 · Dec 19, 2021

aricboger said:
Hello all. First time dabbling into the EV world and ordering an Escape PHEV this week. Had a couple charging-related questions and stumbled upon this forum when trying to find info online.

1. What is the level of amps drawn by the level 1 charger that comes with the Escape? Asking because my garage outlets are on a 15 amp breaker, so if it's 12 amp charger I should be able to use the level 1 hardware when needed. If it's a 15 or 16 amp charger (requiring a 20 amp breaker), I'd have to replace the 14-guage wiring in the garage to be able to swap out the 15 amp breaker for a 20. Full disclosure: I recognize the low charging speed of level 1, this is purely a technical question about the amperage of Ford level 1 charger that i wasn't able to confirm anywhere on my own.

2. My local Ford store says it'll be $800 for their level 2 charger. My father-in-law got that unit for his Escape he got a few months ago and loves it. However I'm debating getting a Grizzl-E Duo instead of the Ford one because I'm planning to buy a full EV in the next 2-3 years (the Escape will be my wife's vehicle; I want a VW ID.4). The Grizzl is only $100 more and any difference in the cost of installation would be negligible. This would allow for ability to charge 2 vehicles simutaneously (albeit at reduced speed when doing two), which seems like a value-add in a garage with two EVs around. The Grizzl is also a 40-amp unit compared to 32 amps on Ford's, so a little faster charge capability. Curious as to others' thoughts on this plan and/or any strong views on the Grizzl brand in general?

Appreciate the feedback.

I bought the Chargepoint Flex (for $699 on Amazon) and had an Electrian install a 240V outlet on a 50 Amp breaker in my garage. I'm not even close to using the amount of power it outputs but I'm at least future proof. Also my work uses Chargepoint so its cool to see charge/cost on 1 app.

edit forgot to mention their is a federal tax credit on getting a charger installed, at least till the end of 2021.

62Lincoln

· #12 · Dec 22, 2021

One other point of consideration is if your local electric supplier has variable pricing, and charges a lower rate at night. If, for example, their lowest rates were from midnight to 6 am, an L2 charger might allow you to target that 6 hour window and still achieve a full charge, something an L1 charger couldn't do in 6 hours (depending on initial SOC). Just another factor to consider that hasn't been mentioned so far.

Reactions: 1

BigSkyB91

· #13 · Dec 23, 2021

aricboger said:
Hello all. First time dabbling into the EV world and ordering an Escape PHEV this week. Had a couple charging-related questions and stumbled upon this forum when trying to find info online.

1. What is the level of amps drawn by the level 1 charger that comes with the Escape? Asking because my garage outlets are on a 15 amp breaker, so if it's 12 amp charger I should be able to use the level 1 hardware when needed. If it's a 15 or 16 amp charger (requiring a 20 amp breaker), I'd have to replace the 14-guage wiring in the garage to be able to swap out the 15 amp breaker for a 20. Full disclosure: I recognize the low charging speed of level 1, this is purely a technical question about the amperage of Ford level 1 charger that i wasn't able to confirm anywhere on my own.

2. My local Ford store says it'll be $800 for their level 2 charger. My father-in-law got that unit for his Escape he got a few months ago and loves it. However I'm debating getting a Grizzl-E Duo instead of the Ford one because I'm planning to buy a full EV in the next 2-3 years (the Escape will be my wife's vehicle; I want a VW ID.4). The Grizzl is only $100 more and any difference in the cost of installation would be negligible. This would allow for ability to charge 2 vehicles simutaneously (albeit at reduced speed when doing two), which seems like a value-add in a garage with two EVs around. The Grizzl is also a 40-amp unit compared to 32 amps on Ford's, so a little faster charge capability. Curious as to others' thoughts on this plan and/or any strong views on the Grizzl brand in general?

Appreciate the feedback.

Nothing to add on your first question.

For your 2nd, $800 seems high. You can get a good "smart" L2 charger for between $600 and $699 (ChargePoint, JuiceBox, Wallbox, etc.), probably even less if you get one without wifi, etc. I have an older ChargePoint Home 32A and a newer Wallbox Pulsar Plus 48, and both charge my '21 Escape PHEV without any issues. I have NOT had to dial down the charger from the 48a setting - the car seems to negotiate what it needs without any issues.

You may not need need the L2 - I had a Cmax Energi and just used the 120V charger than came with the car the entire 3 years of my lease. The prolonged charging, though, did discolor the AC outlet, and, in hindsight, I'm not sure it was "safe" (might have been too hot if it discolored the plastic). However, when I replaced my Cmax with a Focus EV, I got the L2 so I could get a faster turnaround on the bigger battery. My other car is a '22 Bolt, which came with a free EV charger install, so I got a 48A since the Bolt can charge at 11.5kW; even the 32A Chargepoint is overkill for the Escape PHEV.

I've only heard good things about the Grizzl-E, but have no personal experience with the brand.

One thing I wish I had known - longer cables are better, depending on where you plug in or if you need to use one charger for two cars in the same garage. I initially got an 18' cable and it wasn't long enough to charge the second car without swapping spots. Also, if I had gotten a Kia or Hyundai, which charge in the front, I would have had to back the car in to charge.

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STRAUSJE

· #14 · Dec 23, 2021

aricboger said:
Hello all. First time dabbling into the EV world and ordering an Escape PHEV this week. Had a couple charging-related questions and stumbled upon this forum when trying to find info online.

1. What is the level of amps drawn by the level 1 charger that comes with the Escape? Asking because my garage outlets are on a 15 amp breaker, so if it's 12 amp charger I should be able to use the level 1 hardware when needed. If it's a 15 or 16 amp charger (requiring a 20 amp breaker), I'd have to replace the 14-guage wiring in the garage to be able to swap out the 15 amp breaker for a 20. Full disclosure: I recognize the low charging speed of level 1, this is purely a technical question about the amperage of Ford level 1 charger that i wasn't able to confirm anywhere on my own.

2. My local Ford store says it'll be $800 for their level 2 charger. My father-in-law got that unit for his Escape he got a few months ago and loves it. However I'm debating getting a Grizzl-E Duo instead of the Ford one because I'm planning to buy a full EV in the next 2-3 years (the Escape will be my wife's vehicle; I want a VW ID.4). The Grizzl is only $100 more and any difference in the cost of installation would be negligible. This would allow for ability to charge 2 vehicles simutaneously (albeit at reduced speed when doing two), which seems like a value-add in a garage with two EVs around. The Grizzl is also a 40-amp unit compared to 32 amps on Ford's, so a little faster charge capability. Curious as to others' thoughts on this plan and/or any strong views on the Grizzl brand in general?

Appreciate the feedback.

Escape PHEV max power charge input is 16 amp 240volt. When you look for chargers like some of the ones listed in the response you got, they are mostly over kill. And also overpriced. Keep shopping, think about where you want it mounted, how much cord you need to reach the charge port door? Also most chargers will say in the fine print they require a ground fault circuit detector at the service panel. The 30 amp 240 volt breaker for my panel was $175.

V8Nissan

· #15 · May 13, 2022

Does anyone know if the 120v charging is amperage limited as well? I want to charge at work on 120v. The factory charger draws 11 amps and takes 10.5 hours. They do sell charging cords that can run 16 amps. I tried one advertised at 16 amps but it only had the 15 amp style cord end. Both chargers only would draw 11 amps when plugged in which makes me think the car is limiting current or the cord was false advertising.

Donrim

· #16 · May 13, 2022 (Edited)

The NEC (National Electric Code) defines a continuous load as “a load where the maximum current is expected to continue for three hours or more.” Charging the Escape at 120 can take much longer that 3 hours.

Section 384-16(c) of the NEC also states that a standard OCPD (overcurrent protection device) can be loaded to only 80% of its rating for continuous loads.

So, if you use a charger with a 15 amp plug, the assumption is that it is plugged into a circuit with a 15 amp breaker and can therefore draw no more than about 12 amps to keep the wiring and breaker code compliant.

Cheap builder grade 15 amp duplex receptacles can overheat if operated at 15 amps for long periods, especially if they are old with weak corroded contacts.

It’s a good idea to replace the 120VAC receptacle you use to charge the car with a hospital or heavy duty grade one. Also wrap the wires around the screw terminals and don’t use the push-in connections.

Reactions: 1

V8Nissan

· #17 · May 13, 2022

Donrim said:
The NEC (National Electric Code) defines a continuous load as “a load where the maximum current is expected to continue for three hours or more.” Charging the Escape at 120 can take much longer that 3 hours.

Section 384-16(c) of the NEC also states that a standard OCPD (overcurrent protection device) can be loaded to only 80% of its rating for continuous loads.

So, if you use a charger with a 15 amp plug, the assumption is that it is plugged into a circuit with a 15 amp breaker and can therefore draw no more than about 12 amps to keep the wiring and breaker code compliant.

I am looking at using 20 amp industrial rated outlets nema 5-20 if I can find a charger that will supply 16 amps. Just not sure if the onboard charger is capable of more.[/QUOTE]

Donrim

· #18 · May 14, 2022 (Edited)

It’s likely that the Escspe onboard charger does not support 16 amp 120 volt charging.

However, the 16amp charging cord you tried that came with a NEMA 5-15P plug is clearly bogus. It should have had a NEMA 5-20P plug. That casts doubt on its it’s safety.

Reactions: 1

V8Nissan

· #19 · May 14, 2022

Donrim said:
When you are plugged into a 120 VAC outlet, the Escape assumes you are plugged into a 15 amp circuit and therefore limits the current to the NEC maximum 80% or about 12 amps. The vehicle has no way of knowing you plugged into a higher capacity 20 amp 120VAC circuit so it cant safely allow 16 amps to flow.

My previous Chevy Volt had two software selectable charge settings of 8 amps or 12 amps at 120 VAC. Chevy was actually worried about 12 amps overloading some circuits and provided the optional lower current setting.

I doubt that Ford would ever provide a 12 and 16 amp selectable 120 VAC charge selection since the customer could incorrectly select 16 amps and overload a 15 amp circuit, possibly creating a safety legal liability for Ford.

I was hoping that the current limit was set by the device plugged into the wall and that the onboard charger might be capable of 1700 watts on 120 as it seems limited to 3400 watts on 220. I drive 32 miles each way to work so was trying to get the most out of my 8.5 hour charge time at work. Clipper Creek offers a charger rated for 16 amps on 120.

Golluk

· #20 · May 14, 2022

V8Nissan said:
I was hoping that the current limit was set by the device plugged into the wall and that the onboard charger might be capable of 1700 watts on 120 as it seems limited to 3400 watts on 220. I drive 32 miles each way to work so was trying to get the most out of my 8.5 hour charge time at work. Clipper Creek offers a charger rated for 16 amps on 120.

The EVSE will tell the onboard charger what the max current it can provide is. Many EVSE let you adjust that limit to match the wiring and breaker you have it plugged into. But the onboard charger will only draw up to it's own limit, or the EVSE limit, whichever is lower. Quick searching, it looks like the Escape has a 3.3KW onboard charger, and pulls up to about 16 amps. So it should be able to do 1.9KW max on 120V.

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