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Hi Grulex

The three noises you describe are spot on.

I have information from a local facebook group. Here some users report the software update reduces the noise. But others report the software did nothing and the metal noises are still there.
Some in Denmark report that changing the clutch solves the problem (the clutch spring damper apparently makes the metal sound). It requires the engine and transmission to be completely removed.
View attachment 80078

My dealer simply says they are waiting for a solution from Ford. I have waited almost 1 year too...
My guess is that Ford is crunching the numbers, because if it is just the clutch, it probably does no damage, but it costs alot to replace.

This is the info I can I piece together so far. If anyone has more information please share with the forum :)
Are they replacing it with an upgraded clutch disc assembly, or with the same original Ford part # LX6Z-7550-A ? Do you have a link to the facebook group?
 

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Hi Invader

It is the DK Kuga PHEV facebook group I have my info from (but it is in Danish). Ford sold more than 5000 PHEV Kuga (Escape) in DK in 2020 so it is a large group.

Sorry, but I do not know if there is an updated clutch part.
Most users say the dealers have no solution and await an official Ford fix (which now more than 1 year later has not been issued - except the magic software which does not seem to do much). It is just a few that had the clutch replaced.
 

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They finally released a TSB on this.

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN
HF45 Transmission - Rattle Noise On Cold Start - Built On Or Before 01-Apr-2021
21-2129
26 April 2021​
Model:
Ford
2020-2021 Escape
Transmission/Transaxle: (H4F45)

Issue: Some 2020-2021 Escape vehicles equipped with a HF45 transmission may exhibit a rattle noise on cold start up only when the engine is running. This noise may be more prevalent in cold weather conditions, typically at or below 0°C (32°F). This may be due to the software in the secondary on-board diagnostic control module C (SOBDMC). To correct this condition, follow the Service Procedure steps to reprogram the SOBDMC.
Action: Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition on vehicles that meet all of the following criteria:




Warranty Status: Eligible under provisions of New Vehicle Limited Warranty (NVLW)/Service Part Warranty (SPW)/Special Service Part (SSP)/Extended Service Plan (ESP) coverage. Limits/policies/prior approvals are not altered by a TSB. NVLW/SPW/SSP/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool.
Labor Times
DescriptionOperation No.Time
2020-2021 Escape HF45 Transmission: Reprogram The Appropriate Modules As Required By The Software Update And Service Procedure (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations)
MT212129​
Actual Time​
Repair/Claim Coding
Causal Part:RECAL
Condition Code:04
Service Procedure
1. Reprogram the PCM using the latest software level of the appropriate Ford diagnostic scan tool.
2. Check the availability for software updates on the following modules (if equipped) and update as required:
(1). Secondary on-board diagnostic control module (SOBDM)
(2). Battery energy control module (BECM)
(3). Secondary on-board diagnostic control module B (SOBDMB)
(4). Secondary on-board diagnostic control module C (SOBDMC)
(5). Anti-lock brake system (ABS) module
NOTE: Only one module may be updated at a time.
And what about post-April 2021 vehicles? My Kuga/Escape FHEV rattles very audibly and it is bought in EU in August fresh from assembly line as I was told.
 

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Had the recall done...no effect. Still rattles like crazy. I wonder if this is going to be like the Focus transmission debacle in a few years. It's annoying but I guess I'm not too concerned since I'm only leasing it for 3 years and it will be under warranty the whole time. If I had bought the car I'd probably be pushing them to fix it though.
 

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Had the recall done...no effect. Still rattles like crazy. I wonder if this is going to be like the Focus transmission debacle in a few years. It's annoying but I guess I'm not too concerned since I'm only leasing it for 3 years and it will be under warranty the whole time. If I had bought the car I'd probably be pushing them to fix it though.
The only possible fix is by replacing the clutch disc assembly, after separating the transmission from the engine... Only the same original Ford part # LX6Z-7550-A is yet available for replacement. Although noisy, it should not cause any real problem in the long run.
Automotive tire Automotive wheel system Font Auto part Engineering
 

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Had the recall done...no effect. Still rattles like crazy. I wonder if this is going to be like the Focus transmission debacle in a few years. It's annoying but I guess I'm not too concerned since I'm only leasing it for 3 years and it will be under warranty the whole time. If I had bought the car I'd probably be pushing them to fix it though.
By the way do you find your car also vibrating unevenly when it rattles? I can clearly feel it driver-side by the seat.
 

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Updated to add more to the time line: 11-11-2021

Just to document my current service experience for this issue.

Oct 22, 2021 - Delivered car to the Ford dealership. I included a printout of the TSB and also described what was going on. Showed the Service Writer a video on my phone of my car making the rattling noise, he appeared less than interested in the video. I mentioned other YouTube videos and the forum but was told they are not allowed to look at those and would need to determine on their own if there is a problem.

Oct 26, 2021 - Text Message: "A tech was assigned to my vehicle and has driven the vehicle once today, has tried to get noise to duplicate, has not at this time." After receiving this text I informed them that they don't have to drive it. Just turn it on in the morning and listen. I sent a link to my video and told them to listen at the 1 minute mark. They indicate that all modules have been updated.

Oct 27, 2021 - Tech and shop foreman listened to my video. Foreman wants to find a like model vehicle and compare it. Trying to determine if it is normal.

Oct 28, 2021 - They finally agree, there is a noise that is not normal. (So the TSB did not fix it, no surprise.) Will be a Nov 1 before can get it on a lift to try and locate the noise.

Nov 2, 2021 - Text Message: "Tech is still working on chasing down the noise for us since it occurs for such a short amount of time and goes away as vehicle gets warm its hard to trace. But he is working on it." I responded with "OK thanks, Definitely appears to be fluid pressure related. Will see what the tech finds. I know many others have the issue and Ford knows about it."

Nov 3, 2021 - Text Message: "Tech thinks he has isolated the noise to the back closest to trans case. Getting Foreman involved to verify what he is hearing." Text Message: "Still working on pinpointing this noise for us. The tech stated that the vehicle did not make the noise for them when they tried it the second time. Will let tech know to start a case with Ford regarding the noise to get them to assist also.

Nov 5, 2021 - Text Message: " Tech is getting with team lead in trans, the forman did hear it but it is so hard again to pinpoint. the team lead for trans is out today he will be back in Monday. I will reach back out then for us."

Nov 8, 2021 - Text Message: " Good afternoon, Techs and foreman think they have pinpointed the noise to the transmission there is a similar report open for another exact same issue and ford suggested to replace trans to correct the problem. I am awaiting fords response they typically take 24-48 hours to respond."

Nov 9, 2021 - Text Message: "I have not received any updates from ford at this time. If i do get any updates today I will reach out."

Nov 10, 2021 - Text Message: "Good morning, They believe it to be the damper in the trans the damper is in order does not come in till 11/16. Will be in communication with you on 11/12 too touch base."

I responded with "Is it safe to drive as is until the part comes in? If so then I could pick it up Thursday and bring it back once part is in."

He responded that he would ask and let me know. But I never heard back. :(

As you can see, going on three weeks. Fortunately I am retired and we can do with only one car for now. So I am not pressuring them to rush this issue. Will see what Ford comes back with.

Nov 11, 2021 - Service advisor called and said I could come pick up the car. I have the car and am waiting on the dealer to call me when the part is in hand. I will take it back at that point.

Nov 18, 2021 - No word on the part as of today. I will give them till Thanksgiving, I will call them and ask for an update on the part status after that. The car is supposed to have had the TSB performed and I can say after driving it for a week, there is no difference in the sound.

I still do not have high hopes for a resolution.
 

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Updated to add more to the time line: 11-11-2021

Just to document my current service experience for this issue.

Oct 22, 2021 - Delivered car to the Ford dealership. I included a printout of the TSB and also described what was going on. Showed the Service Writer a video on my phone of my car making the rattling noise, he appeared less than interested in the video. I mentioned other YouTube videos and the forum but was told they are not allowed to look at those and would need to determine on their own if there is a problem.

Oct 26, 2021 - Text Message: "A tech was assigned to my vehicle and has driven the vehicle once today, has tried to get noise to duplicate, has not at this time." After receiving this text I informed them that they don't have to drive it. Just turn it on in the morning and listen. I sent a link to my video and told them to listen at the 1 minute mark. They indicate that all modules have been updated.

Oct 27, 2021 - Tech and shop foreman listened to my video. Foreman wants to find a like model vehicle and compare it. Trying to determine if it is normal.

Oct 28, 2021 - They finally agree, there is a noise that is not normal. (So the TSB did not fix it, no surprise.) Will be a Nov 1 before can get it on a lift to try and locate the noise.

Nov 2, 2021 - Text Message: "Tech is still working on chasing down the noise for us since it occurs for such a short amount of time and goes away as vehicle gets warm its hard to trace. But he is working on it." I responded with "OK thanks, Definitely appears to be fluid pressure related. Will see what the tech finds. I know many others have the issue and Ford knows about it."

Nov 3, 2021 - Text Message: "Tech thinks he has isolated the noise to the back closest to trans case. Getting Foreman involved to verify what he is hearing." Text Message: "Still working on pinpointing this noise for us. The tech stated that the vehicle did not make the noise for them when they tried it the second time. Will let tech know to start a case with Ford regarding the noise to get them to assist also.

Nov 5, 2021 - Text Message: " Tech is getting with team lead in trans, the forman did hear it but it is so hard again to pinpoint. the team lead for trans is out today he will be back in Monday. I will reach back out then for us."

Nov 8, 2021 - Text Message: " Good afternoon, Techs and foreman think they have pinpointed the noise to the transmission there is a similar report open for another exact same issue and ford suggested to replace trans to correct the problem. I am awaiting fords response they typically take 24-48 hours to respond."

Nov 9, 2021 - Text Message: "I have not received any updates from ford at this time. If i do get any updates today I will reach out."

Nov 10, 2021 - Text Message: "Good morning, They believe it to be the damper in the trans the damper is in order does not come in till 11/16. Will be in communication with you on 11/12 too touch base."

I responded with "Is it safe to drive as is until the part comes in? If so then I could pick it up Thursday and bring it back once part is in."

He responded that he would ask and let me know. But I never heard back. :(


As you can see, going on three weeks. Fortunately I am retired and we can do with only one car for now. So I am not pressuring them to rush this issue. Will see what Ford comes back with. I do not have high hopes for a resolution.
TClemmer, appreciate your detailed account. Having the exact same issue, fortunately live in the south and only have to deal with colder weather 2 months out of the year. Bought vehicle at the end of 02/2020 so only heard the noise a couple of times and then it went away. Never thought twice about it. Looking forward to finding out if it was indeed the damper and if driving with the condition causes further damage. Apparently Ford isn't sure at this point. Other than this and the subwoofer issue, love the vehicle. Thanks again for sharing your journey.
 

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TClemmer, appreciate your detailed account. Having the exact same issue, fortunately live in the south and only have to deal with colder weather 2 months out of the year. Bought vehicle at the end of 02/2020 so only heard the noise a couple of times and then it went away. Never thought twice about it. Looking forward to finding out if it was indeed the damper and if driving with the condition causes further damage. Apparently Ford isn't sure at this point. Other than this and the subwoofer issue, love the vehicle. Thanks again for sharing your journey.
Thanks Excaped, I need to do another update. I have my car back until the part comes in. Was supposed to come in 11/16 but I have yet to hear anything. I don't expect it to fix it. Will update my post as new info comes in.

Tom
 

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With the cold weather last few weeks hearing the noise again. Had the TSB done last year and just accepting it's a cold weather thing. Car in all performs great otherwise. Annoying, but manageable.

The little fit and finish things are slightly annoying (heat shield rattles near the rear passenger side for example) but in all love the car.
 

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Found an interesting video that shows how rotational imbalances in the engine can cause rattling noise in the gears of the transmission and how the clutch damper is supposed to silence those noises. This video is old and has nothing to do with Ford or even hybrids, but I think it's still relevant to the problem. Ford's hybrid transmissions have a lot of gears and a clutch damper between it and the gas engine.


Another good video showing the previous generation of Ford's hybrid transmission (HF35):

If the clutch damper is not doing its job, this may explain why the rattling noise and vibrations are heard/felt much more at certain (lower) speeds/RPM. I'm just guessing but maybe these rotational imbalances in the engine are more pronounced when the engine oil temperature and/or pressure are low, which could explain the rattling on cold starts, especially in the winter.

It would be great to do a transmission fluid change and have it analyzed. If it contains too much metallic residue, it would prove that this problem is causing excessive wear on the transmission and potentially force Ford to deal with it instead of saying the cars are safe to drive.
 

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Found an interesting video that shows how rotational imbalances in the engine can cause rattling noise in the gears of the transmission and how the clutch damper is supposed to silence those noises. This video is old and has nothing to do with Ford or even hybrids, but I think it's still relevant to the problem. Ford's hybrid transmissions have a lot of gears and a clutch damper between it and the gas engine.


Another good video showing the previous generation of Ford's hybrid transmission (HF35):

If the clutch damper is not doing its job, this may explain why the rattling noise and vibrations are heard/felt much more at certain (lower) speeds/RPM. I'm just guessing but maybe these rotational imbalances in the engine are more pronounced when the engine oil temperature and/or pressure are low, which could explain the rattling on cold starts, especially in the winter.

It would be great to do a transmission fluid change and have it analyzed. If it contains too much metallic residue, it would prove that this problem is causing excessive wear on the transmission and potentially force Ford to deal with it instead of saying the cars are safe to drive.
It's actually only the clutch damper itself that is noisy, which is why it is heard so clearly... It is not from inside the transmission at all.

There is no risk of damage from driving it with a noisy clutch damper.
 
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