2013+ Ford Escape Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,526 Posts
Has anyone thought of or did any insulation like FATMAT on the inside or even the outer wheel wells to help deaden tire noise??
Centex posted a really good thread on sound insulation. Might be some good information for the wheel wells portion you are looking for. A quick search should be able to find it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,244 Posts
Fatmat is a constrained layer dampener (CLD), not an "insulation" in terms of acoustics. It'll help dampen the resonance of the panel it's bonded to but does essentially nothing to block sound transmission or absorb sound. "Essentially" meaning the block / absorb effect is so minimal over the audible spectrum as to be imperceptible (barring placebo effect ;) ).

If referring to the 'compressed felt' wheel well liners like IIRC my '14 had, those liners don't generate any resonant noise at all ('rap' them with your knuckle or a hammer - they make a dull 'thud' at the moment of contact but don't continue to vibrate at all). IMO nothing to be gained there by applying CLD.

Look for relatively large unsupported metal panels (e.g. outer door skin) for examples of good candidates for CLD benefit. If a panel 'rings hollow' when rapped with a knuckle, it's a CLD candidate; metal panels that sound 'dead' when rapped, less so as that's an indication they are already lacking resonant tendencies.

Meaningful decrease of airborne tire / road noise is accomplished one of two ways ...
  • Reduce the source (get quieter tires)
  • Block the pathways for transmission of sound into the cabin (a continuous unbroken envelope of Mass Loaded Vinyl, MLV; a very labor intensive process)
"Insulation" (absorbing airborne tire / road noise) is virtually impossible - due to the dB levels and frequencies it would take a tremendously thick layer of foam or fibrous material to be perceptibly effective. Not practical in a car.

The other main component of heard road / tire noise is structure-borne …. You'd have to radically alter the suspension / chassis / body mounting system to meaningfully effect that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Fatmat is a constrained layer dampener (CLD), not an "insulation" in terms of acoustics. It'll help dampen the resonance of the panel it's bonded to but does essentially nothing to block sound transmission or absorb sound. "Essentially" meaning the block / absorb effect is so minimal over the audible spectrum as to be imperceptible (barring placebo effect ;) ).

If referring to the 'compressed felt' wheel well liners like IIRC my '14 had, those liners don't generate any resonant noise at all ('rap' them with your knuckle or a hammer - they make a dull 'thud' at the moment of contact but don't continue to vibrate at all). IMO nothing to be gained there by applying CLD.

Look for relatively large unsupported metal panels (e.g. outer door skin) for examples of good candidates for CLD benefit. If a panel 'rings hollow' when rapped with a knuckle, it's a CLD candidate; metal panels that sound 'dead' when rapped, less so as that's an indication they are already lacking resonant tendencies.

Meaningful decrease of airborne tire / road noise is accomplished one of two ways ...
  • Reduce the source (get quieter tires)
  • Block the pathways for transmission of sound into the cabin (a continuous unbroken envelope of Mass Loaded Vinyl, MLV; a very labor intensive process)
"Insulation" (absorbing airborne tire / road noise) is virtually impossible - due to the dB levels and frequencies it would take a tremendously thick layer of foam or fibrous material to be perceptibly effective. Not practical in a car.

The other main component of heard road / tire noise is structure-borne …. You'd have to radically alter the suspension / chassis / body mounting system to meaningfully effect that.
Thanks, was thinking of doing just the rear cargo area under the plastic wheel wells and spare tire bin...The rear tire noise really penetrates there , especially when those rear tires pick up pebbles and during hot weather...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,244 Posts
especially when those rear tires pick up pebbles and during hot weather...
For that impact noise I'd look to a DIY spray-on undercoating material; again, the philosophy of eliminating the source of the noise (stop the pebbles from impacting the metal itself).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
For that impact noise I'd look to a DIY spray-on undercoating material; again, the philosophy of eliminating the source of the noise (stop the pebbles from impacting the metal itself).
The pebbles aren't flinging against the wheel well, they are in-bedded in the treads on the rears and sound like studded snow tires.. They dont stay in the fronts due to turning of the wheels , they mostly get ejected...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Fatmat is a constrained layer dampener (CLD), not an "insulation" in terms of acoustics. It'll help dampen the resonance of the panel it's bonded to but does essentially nothing to block sound transmission or absorb sound. "Essentially" meaning the block / absorb effect is so minimal over the audible spectrum as to be imperceptible (barring placebo effect ;) ).

If referring to the 'compressed felt' wheel well liners like IIRC my '14 had, those liners don't generate any resonant noise at all ('rap' them with your knuckle or a hammer - they make a dull 'thud' at the moment of contact but don't continue to vibrate at all). IMO nothing to be gained there by applying CLD.

Look for relatively large unsupported metal panels (e.g. outer door skin) for examples of good candidates for CLD benefit. If a panel 'rings hollow' when rapped with a knuckle, it's a CLD candidate; metal panels that sound 'dead' when rapped, less so as that's an indication they are already lacking resonant tendencies.

Meaningful decrease of airborne tire / road noise is accomplished one of two ways ...
  • Reduce the source (get quieter tires)
  • Block the pathways for transmission of sound into the cabin (a continuous unbroken envelope of Mass Loaded Vinyl, MLV; a very labor intensive process)
"Insulation" (absorbing airborne tire / road noise) is virtually impossible - due to the dB levels and frequencies it would take a tremendously thick layer of foam or fibrous material to be perceptibly effective. Not practical in a car.

The other main component of heard road / tire noise is structure-borne …. You'd have to radically alter the suspension / chassis / body mounting system to meaningfully effect that.
I do find the majority of the tire /road noise is from rear of vehicle, either through the rear doors and or rear cargo area..I know the rear windows aren't laminated like the fronts are , so that has to contribute, but did manage to see a thick matting over the rear wheel wells under the plastic covers and the spare tire area is padded also....Did you pad the interior of the rear doors and or cargo area on yours?? I know changing the tires will solve most of the noise, but with 10k miles, cant see throwing them out so soon...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,244 Posts
Did you pad the interior of the rear doors and or cargo area on yours??
I applied CLD (Dynamat Extreme in my case) to the interior of the rear quarter panels / wheel wells, the entire floorpan, and all door skins including the liftgate; then a continuous 'fitted' layer of MLV with glued seams for the entire cabin interior and doors/liftgate below the beltline, isolated from contact with interior and exterior surfaces by 1/8" CCF (closed cell foam).

I bought a 4' x 25' = 100SF roll of 1/8" x 1 #/SF MLV (yep, 100 pound roll) and was left with ~8' of scrap when done. All of the OE carpet padding was retained and reinstalled over my floorpan treatment. I did not add any "insulation" / sound absorbing materials as part of my mods - I focused on eliminating panel resonance and sound-blocking.

It was a lot of work but I'd never done a 'gold plated' vehicle acoustic treatment and wanted to try the experiment. All of this was linked to my over-the-top audio system mods.

Yes, the car was most definitely quieter though the structure-borne noise was probably not reduced much at all. The 'tire noise' I'd associated with particular noisy pavements I regularly travelled was certainly reduced. IMO the hardest part, the MLV, is what made the most significant improvement by far. I failed to do well-controlled before/after sound level testing, but some informal iPhone SPL app tests supported my perceptions.

"Worth" is in the ear of the beholder but I'll admit I probably wouldn't do it again on a car like the Escape. There's just no escaping (pardon ;-) the fact (IMO) that you can't turn a car that isn't built for quiet from the ground-up into a truly quiet car.

Interesting to me that the replacement Ridgeline (RL) pickup is quieter than the Escape (even after my mods) on all of my usual roads. Not sure if that's a comment on the Escape, the Honda, or likely some of both :unsure: ; granted it probably helps that the RL rear wheels are behind the cabin, but the RL is unique among pickups in that it's a 'unibody' construction like the Escape. Methinks the details of it's suspension>body/chassis mounting must be more amenable to isolation of structure-borne noise.

I have applied CLD to the RL's 4 outer door skins, yielding a much more satisfying 'thud' when doors are closed, but that's likely all I'll ever do in the way of 'acoustic mods' on the RL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I applied CLD (Dynamat Extreme in my case) to the interior of the rear quarter panels / wheel wells, the entire floorpan, and all door skins including the liftgate; then a continuous 'fitted' layer of MLV with glued seams for the entire cabin interior and doors/liftgate below the beltline, isolated from contact with interior and exterior surfaces by 1/8" CCF (closed cell foam).

I bought a 4' x 25' = 100SF roll of 1/8" x 1 #/SF MLV (yep, 100 pound roll) and was left with ~8' of scrap when done. All of the OE carpet padding was retained and reinstalled over my floorpan treatment. I did not add any "insulation" / sound absorbing materials as part of my mods - I focused on eliminating panel resonance and sound-blocking.

It was a lot of work but I'd never done a 'gold plated' vehicle acoustic treatment and wanted to try the experiment. Yes, the car was most definitely quieter though the structure-borne noise was probably not reduced much at all. The 'tire noise' I'd associated with particular noisy pavements I regularly travelled was certainly reduced. IMO the hardest part, the MLV, is what made the most significant improvement by far. I failed to do well-controlled before/after sound level testing, but some informal iPhone SPL app tests supported my perceptions.

"Worth" is in the ear of the beholder but I'll admit I probably wouldn't do it again on a car like the Escape. There's just no escaping (pardon ;-) the fact (IMO) that you can't turn a car that isn't built for quiet from the ground-up into a truly quiet car.

Interesting to me that the replacement Ridgeline (RL) pickup is quieter than the Escape (even after my mods) on all of my usual roads. Not sure if that's a comment on the Escape, the Honda, or likely some of both :unsure: ; granted it probably helps that the RL rear wheels are behind the cabin, but the RL is unique among pickups in that it's a 'unibody' construction like the Escape. Methinks the details of it's suspension>body/chassis mounting must be more amenable to isolation of structure-borne noise.

I have applied CLD to the RL's 4 outer door skins, yielding a much more satisfying 'thud' when doors are closed, but that's likely all I'll ever do in the way of 'acoustic mods' on the RL.
WOW... You sure did a lot on that baby....Like you said its a lot of work and the results aren't guaranteed..Was just looking at a brush on outer inner wheel coating for rears like Eastwoods for some sound damping..Just a thought..Thanks for the reply....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,244 Posts
Was just looking at a brush on outer inner wheel coating for rears like Eastwoods for some sound damping
Couldn't hurt, might help, an easy and relatively inexpensive thing to try ;) (y)
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top