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2014 Ford Escape Titanium, 2.0L, Sync 2 MFT
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There has been more posts on the stop/start technology in the 17 Escape. Thought I would make a new thread to try and have a discussion on this. There have been posts on how much people hate this feature and how useless it is. Now what I am curious about is if this criticism is based on actual experience using the technology in other vehicles or just a guess in what components might fail? From my understanding, idling vehicles are really hard on engines. So maybe this technology will help with that.

Learn the facts: Idle stop-start technology and its effect on fuel consumption | Natural Resources Canada

I found this article that I thought was interesting. This is from Canada, so you will have to do the conversions yourself. I don't find the gas savings to be that much, what I do find is how much pollution this saves. For a vehicle that gets an average fuel consumption of 10 (L/100 km), it reduces C02 emission by around 101-253 kg per year. If thousands of vehicles has this technology, the CO2 emissions would be reduced substantially. IMO, this far out weighs the possibility at having to replace some engine components a little bit sooner than normal.
 

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Does it save fuel and lower emissions? Yes
Will you notice the difference on your personal vehicle? Probably not
Will it reduce the life of the battery? Minimally, if any
Will it reduce the life of the start? Probably yes
 

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Drove a new one over the weekend. It was by far the most annoying vehicle I've ever driven. This new tech might be good for something, but the constant starting/stopping just ****** me off to no end. I was dropping family off at a store and when it shut off, the steering wheel clocked about 20 degrees sideways very abruptly. Glad my hand was not in the way.

If this is a stock item that cannot be bought without it, I'll just keep the 14 S model till it's ready for the grave. Doesn't matter a whit if it can be turned off. I'd guess, just like traction control, it would reset to default on.
 

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I've also noticed there are special batteries available which are specified for Stop/ Start vehicles.

Any gains would be highly dependant on where you drive. If you get stuck (ie. stopped idling) in traffic a lot it should make a noticeable difference. Otherwise the value is questionable.

It would have to put additional strain on the electrical system. I would expect battery life to be reduced due to the increased depth of discharge when continually having the engine stop and no alternator spinning to take the electrical load. Then there would be a huge current drain restarting the engine.

There is another thread on here stating if you leave the trans in S it overrides the Stop/ Start feature. Sounds like an easy solution. ;)

To me it seems like the car companies need to reduce the average fuel consumption (I believe it's law in the USA?) This is a good way of saving fuel but I don't see the motorist necessarily coming out ahead in overall running costs (eg. starter motor/ battery life and them both being heavy duty would mean more $$$ to replace them should they fail.)
 

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2019 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E AWD
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So this and other threads prompted me to stop at my small-town dealer this morning and after explaining that no sale would result asking to drive an Escape with S-S technology. Friendly young new salesman was assigned to take me for a drive (new out-of-the Army, he got a thanks from me for his service as we briefly swapped info on our 'veteran' histories ;-)

Now the 'funny' part ..... The S-S never 'stopped' on our test drive! He demonstrated the on/off control on the dash before we started out (it was definitely on) and we were definitely not in 'sport mode' when driving. He took over the wheel after awhile to see if he could get it to 'auto-stop' but still no deal. He was baffled, explaining that had never happened before. Other potential 'buying customers' were in the showroom when we returned so I didn't ask for more of his time to try another car.

So, my first experience with auto S-S tech was inauspicious to say the least! I'm still curious to drive it in action .... may try again another time to satisfy my curiosity.
 

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Did you have the AC on? I wonder if it will shut down when the AC is on and it is needed.
 

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That's a good point .... yes the AC was on and it is a warm and humid morning here. Thanks for that idea and if indeed that's what was going on I'd say that makes the S-S system even less 'potentially objectionable' for me !

I will offer that I was pleased to see that the 'defeat' switch is an easy-access button on the dashboard ... not a matter of plowing through IPC menus or such. I understand (the salesman was clear in his explanation) that the system defaults to "on" each time the vehicle is started, but IMHO tapping the button if I wanted it "off" doesn't strike me a big deal .... I certainly can't imagine the 'feature' being a 'deal killer' if everything else about the car was attractive to me.

Frankly, the Electric Parking Brake is a much more 'concerning feature' for me, having had a friend's Subaru EPB 'fail on' which was a significant hassle to 'manually disengage' per the owner's manual instructions so he could continue his travels and which required dealer intervention to reset once the manual override was employed. On the other hand ... the absence of the PB lever sure makes the new console area nice!

Pros and cons .... isn't that the nature of 'progress' ;)
 

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Found this in the owners manual online:

The system is automatically enabled every time you start your vehicle if the following conditions are met:
The Auto StartStop button is not pressed (not illuminated).
Your vehicle exceeds an initial speed of 5 km/h after the vehicle has been initially started.
Your vehicle is stopped.
Your foot is on the brake pedal.
The transmission is in drive (D).
The driver's door is closed.
There is adequate brake vacuum.
The interior compartment has been cooled or warmed to an acceptable level.
The front windshield defroster is off.
The steering wheel is not turned rapidly or is not at a sharp angle.
The vehicle is not on a steep road grade.
The battery is within optimal operating conditions (battery state of charge and temperature in range).
The engine coolant is at operating temperature.
Elevation is below approximately 3,048 m.
Ambient temperature is moderate.
 

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@centex: Now the 'funny' part ..... The S-S never 'stopped' on our test drive! He demonstrated the on/off control on the dash before we started out (it was definitely on) and we were definitely not in 'sport mode' when driving.

The system is "smart" enough that if it's super hot outside and the AC is needed, it will turn back on a couple minutes after it has cycled the S-S.....however, mine normally does go on at first (unless I've already pressed the button to deactivate it).

I will say, that for mine at least, there is a way that you can brake so as to not trigger it. If you have your foot gently on the brake pedal, almost hesitantly, it will not trigger S-S.
 
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whether everybody likes it or not, or even if it only saves a tiny amount of fuel, i think it is an important step in reducing the overall fuel consumption of the global fleet. And, improvements will be made in successive (ed) iterations of the technology.
Wholeheartedly agree, and especially when you factor-in the (hundreds of) millions of tiny increments of emissions reduction that goes with those tiny bits of fuel savings. The key is the global view.

This article is interesting as they actually do a comparison with stop/ start on and off and compare the savings https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/stopstart-technology-does-it-really-save-you-money/
IMHO Mr. Murrell's little 'test' makes Thenorm's point admirably.

Then Mr. Murrell concludes with: "There is no doubt stop/start helps manufacturers attain more acceptable fuel and emissions figures. As to whether or not they are of genuine benefit to buyers, the jury is still out."

Considering Thenorm's observation, I'd suggest the better supported conclusion is: "There is no doubt stop/start helps the planet attain more acceptable fuel and emissions figures. And that's a definite win-win for all living things."

:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Considering Thenorm's observation, I'd suggest the better supported conclusion is: "There is no doubt stop/start helps the planet attain more acceptable fuel and emissions figures. And that's a definite win-win for all living things."

:)
Very well said. I find the less pollution aspect of this to be a lot more important than a few dollars saved here and there from less gas used. Would also really help when you are sitting in a long drive thru at a fast food or coffee place.
 

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Very well said. I find the less pollution aspect of this to be a lot more important than a few dollars saved here and there from less gas used. Would also really help when you are sitting in a long drive thru at a fast food or coffee place.
Is it better though- looking at the full term life of the vehicle? Some of the possible side effects commonly listed include increased engine wear, increased starter motor wear (although there are apparently differing systems to combat that aspect), heavier duty batteries that in all probability will need replacing more often.

It's like saying a Prius is better for the environment because it's a hybrid and uses less fuel. You need to look at the impact from all aspects- especially the environmental impact of the manufacturing and replacement of components throughout the vehicle's life span.
 

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Is it better though- looking at the full term life of the vehicle? Some of the possible side effects commonly listed include increased engine wear, increased starter motor wear (although there are apparently differing systems to combat that aspect), heavier duty batteries that in all probability will need replacing more often....
Mr. Murrell touches on most of those issues and similar to Thenorm suggests that development, incited by the need, on many of those fronts will improve with time.

I agree with the notion that total life cycle 'costs' (both economic and environmental) must be considered in the 'global view'.

...It's like saying a Prius is better for the environment because it's a hybrid and uses less fuel. You need to look at the impact from all aspects- especially the environmental impact of the manufacturing and replacement of components throughout the vehicle's life span.
I also agree that the over-simplified thought oft-stated claims of 'global' efficiency of hybrids and electrics bears scrutiny. In the case of heavily battery reliant hybrids and 'all electrics' the current state of battery technologies and electric power generation/transmission certainly raises valid questions along those lines.

It's not an easy calculus.

Though not at all 'scientific', my gut tells me that S-S technology is still a valid and important increment in our continued efforts to minimize the total life cycle cost and environmental impact of transportation systems based on mobile combustion of hydrocarbons. The notion of consuming un-recoverable hydrocarbons without converting that energy to vehicle motion strikes me as an obviously significant waste (again, both dollars and pollutants) .... and like all drivers I see lots of cars sitting still a lot of the time I'm 'on the road'.
 

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I am interested in seeing the long term effect on the starting circuit and battery. Seeing is believing concerning the beefed up starter.
 

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I am interested in seeing the long term effect on the starting circuit and battery. Seeing is believing concerning the beefed up starter.
I am also interested in seeing this.....only time will tell, but I'll keep you posted! :)
 

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I wonder how this system will behave during the cold US & Canadian winters. I mean, we all know that cold weather can be hard on the battery. :confused:
 

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I wonder how this system will behave during the cold US & Canadian winters. I mean, we all know that cold weather can be hard on the battery. :confused:
it likely won't engage much in cold weather. as per the owners manual it has to meet certain criteria:

"The battery is within optimal operating conditions (battery state of charge and temperature in range).
The engine coolant is at operating temperature.
Ambient temperature is moderate.
 
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