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Hello, I have a 2014 Escape. It is Titanium trim FWD with 2.0L Ecoboost. Last week I went to the garage to start the car and it was dead. I removed the battery, put it on a charger overnight, and tried again the next morning. Still nothing. I took the battery to the parts store to have them check it. It tested fine according to them. They said if I could get it to them they would check the alternator.

I jump started it and that worked. Drove it down there and they told me the voltage regulator was not working correctly and then proceeded to recommend a mechanic to replace my alternator. :confused: I drove it home and checked the voltage with my meter. 14.4 volts. Checked AC ripple voltage, 35mV.
Conclusion: Charging system is fine.

Disconnect battery. Put current meter in series with ground cable to measure current draw with car off. 1.3A Conclusion: Parasitic drain

Watch a couple of youtube videos to see how to diagnose. Simplest, but maybe most time consuming, is to begin pulling fuses to isolate which circuit is drawing power. Start with the box under the hood by the battery. No change. Try the one in the rear cargo area due to ease of access even with non-functioning liftgate. No change. Try the panel under the glove box. Begin with fuse F88 bottom right most 25A. Current draw drops. Look at manual to see what F88 feeds. Feeds to fuses F67, F69, F71, and F79.

Try them in descending order only because these are somewhat difficult to get to. Pull and replace F79, F71, F69, all with no change. Pull F67, current drops. Look to manual. F67 feeds SYNC, display, GPS module.
Conclusion: Sync module or GPS is staying on and preventing car from starting.



Has anyone else seen something like this? Assuming my diagnosis is correct is the fix to replace the SYNC/GPS modules?

Thanks,
frank
 

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2019 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E AWD
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Welcome to the forum!

Since your diagnostic points to the APIM (SYNC module) you might check with a dealer to see if this extension of the APIM warranty to 5 years comes into play. That might yield a free replacement / fix.

Sounds like you've done some careful / thorough diagnostics. Though 1.3A does strike me as a lot for the APIM to pull immediately following ignition-off (I would expect something in the milliamp range), that module likely is intended to have some activity with associated low-current-draw after shut down and may not drop to its lowest-current-draw condition 'till after the vehicle has sat totally undisturbed (and entered full 'sleep mode') for a period of time after ignition-off. Even opening a door will 'wake' the ignition-off vehicle from sleep and induce some intended battery loads - I wonder if the timing/sequence of your testing for parasitic draws could be misleading due to that (i.e. was the vehicle in its full sleep state when you detected the 1.5A parasitic load?).

When you pulled the battery, how did the Battery Monitor Sensor and associated 2-wire connector on the negative battery terminal look? Others have reported a variety of bad electrical behaviors upon finding that sensor or associated connector and 16-gauge wires corroded (to the point of high circuit resistance or circuit discontinuity). That sensor may play a role in the BMS operation including ensuring that modules on "hot at all times" circuits (e.g. APIM) correctly enter lowest-current-draw 'sleep mode' at the appropriate time after the ignition is turned off and the vehicle is allowed to stand undisturbed.

Bottom line, we do know that by design the Escape does have some battery loads after ignition-off, though that should be low immediately after ignition-off and drop even lower when the vehicle enters full 'sleep mode'. I don't know that there is any 'state' where there is absolutely zero load on the battery.

IIRC the majority of 'dead battery after sitting' issues reported here have ultimately been related to wiring ground-faults, Battery Monitor Sensor or associated wiring failures, or batteries nearing end-of-life but not yet totally defunct. I don't recall any threads where APIM or GPS module failures were found to be the cause.

One minor clarification on the circuit fuses based on my review of the wiring diagrams .... I don't see that F88 'feeds' F67, F69, F71, and F79 (IMHO supported by your determination that pulling F88 didn't affect the parasitic load while pulling F67 did). To me it looks like F67 etc are 'fed' via the master fuses supplying the BCM, those being MEGA fuses F4 and F9 (both 50A) located in the High Current Battery Junction Box which is mounted vertically on the front of the battery housing and 30A F11 in the (low current) Battery Junction Box on the left side of the engine copartment.

Hope that helps, good luck, please keep us posted.
 

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Keep in mind that Ford uses a PCM controlled charging system (Smart Charging). So you can't just determine that the charging system, alternator or v-regulator is functioning fine by measuring voltage at any single point in time. It does need to be checked under various loads and power requirements to ascertain this, so old school methods no longer apply.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
When you pulled the battery, how did the Battery Monitor Sensor and associated 2-wire connector on the negative battery terminal look? Others have reported a variety of bad electrical behaviors upon finding that sensor or associated connector and 16-gauge wires corroded (to the point of high circuit resistance or circuit discontinuity). That sensor may play a role in the BMS operation including ensuring that modules on "hot at all times" circuits (e.g. APIM) correctly enter lowest-current-draw 'sleep mode' at the appropriate time after the ignition is turned off and the vehicle is allowed to stand undisturbed.

Bottom line, we do know that by design the Escape does have some battery loads after ignition-off, though that should be low immediately after ignition-off and drop even lower when the vehicle enters full 'sleep mode'. I don't know that there is any 'state' where there is absolutely zero load on the battery.

IIRC the majority of 'dead battery after sitting' issues reported here have ultimately been related to wiring ground-faults, Battery Monitor Sensor or associated wiring failures, or batteries nearing end-of-life but not yet totally defunct. I don't recall any threads where APIM or GPS module failures were found to be the cause.
The negative terminal where I'm assuming the monitor lives (small rectangular device with a 2-pin connector) was very corroded. I removed the battery again to check and apparently I did not tighten the connection completely. Removed the battery and negative cable. Cleaned the connection on the cable with one of the christmas tree style wire brushes. Reassembled and put battery back in. Used FORSCAN software on my laptop with bluetooth OBD2 adapter to run BMS reset procedure. I was unaware of this reset procedure so did not do it when I initially replaced the battery.

One minor clarification on the circuit fuses based on my review of the wiring diagrams .... I don't see that F88 'feeds' F67, F69, F71, and F79 (IMHO supported by your determination that pulling F88 didn't affect the parasitic load while pulling F67 did). To me it looks like F67 etc are 'fed' via the master fuses supplying the BCM, those being MEGA fuses F4 and F9 (both 50A) located in the High Current Battery Junction Box which is mounted vertically on the front of the battery housing and 30A F11 in the (low current) Battery Junction Box on the left side of the engine copartment.

Hope that helps, good luck, please keep us posted.
The manual I have for my Escape on page 203 says F88, 25A, supply for F67, F69, F71, and F79.

Thanks for the reply, very helpful.
 

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...The manual I have for my Escape on page 203 says F88, 25A, supply for F67, F69, F71, and F79....
Interesting. I'm referencing the genuine original Motorcraft Service Manual on CD ROM (that is not a page-numbered PDF document). It's probably not important to the issue but if F67 were supplied via F88 then pulling F88 should have shown the same effect as pulling F67 it would seem?

Moving on from that nuance ....

As @atlcarl69 mentioned, getting a true and accurate check of the charging system output/performance is not particularly easy with the Escape's PCM-controlled system. The full diagnostics runs the equivalent of 3-5 printed pages in my manual.

I just found in my manual (Section 414-01 Battery Drain Check) that the draw should not exceed 50 mA with all electrical accessories off and the vehicle at rest for at least 40 minutes. That means you've got to leave the whatever doors / hood open you need to run the test for that full 40 minutes lest you change the 'at rest' condition just before you do the test. The manual further notes that many modules draw 10 mA or more continuously. In the Battery Drain Test procedure it's noted "If the drain is still not located after checking all the fuses, it may be due to the generator. Disconnect the generator and retest."

You mentioned that pulling F67 reduced the draw .... by how much? Was that in the milliamp range or the full 1.3A mentioned previously? Again, a milliamp-range ignition-off draw from the APIM would not, in itself, be a flag for me, especially if not yet in 'full sleep mode'.

That darned BMS sensor (yep, you found it) and its connector seems to be a source of all sorts of weird but significant electrical mis-behavior if not in perfect condition.

FYI per posts from another member ....

The BMS Sensor is only available integral with the negative cable - - Ford (AV6Z-10C679-M)

This the pigtail for replacement of the 2-pin connector at the BMS Sensor - Wire Assembly - Ford (DU2Z-14S411-AZA)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Interesting. I'm referencing the Motorcraft Service Manual on CD ROM. It's probably not important to the issue but if F67 were supplied via F88 then pulling F88 should have shown the same effect as pulling F67 it would seem?
It did. Pulling 88 and 67 both dropped current draw from 1.3A to roughly 50mA. I'm sorry if I was unclear about that.



Moving on from that nuance ....

As atlcarl69 mentioned, getting a true and accurate check of the charging system output/performance is not particularly easy with the Escape's PCM-controlled system. The full diagnostics runs the equivalent of 3-5 printed pages in my manual.
Nothing else about what the car is doing makes me think it is a bad alternator. I have a clamp ammeter on order but it won't be here until Monday.

At this point I think I'm another victim of corroded BMS sensor, that presented itself in a super strange way. (Parasitic current draw)

I just found in my manual (Section 414-01 Battery Drain Check) that the draw should not exceed 50 mA with all electrical off and the vehicle at rest for at least 40 minutes. That means you've got to leave the whatever doors / hood open you need to run the test for that full 40 minutes lest you change the 'at rest' condition just before you do the test. The manual further notes that many modules draw 10 mA or more continuously.

You mentioned that pulling F67 reduced the draw .... by how much? Was that in the milliamp range or the full 1.3A mentioned previously? Again, a milliamp-range ignition-off draw from the APIM would not, in itself, be a flag for me, especially if not yet in 'full sleep mode'.
Pulling 67 reduced the draw to the acceptable level, roughly 50mA. However, I left the fuse out. Ate lunch, came back and tried it again. Dead. No crank, no lights, nothing.

That darned BMS sensor (yep, you found it) and its connector seems to be a source of all sorts of weird but significant electrical mis-behavior if not in perfect condition.

FYI per posts from another member ....
Thanks again for the help.
 

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Can you confirm you waited the required 40 minutes without disturbing anything? This means use a clamp ammeter (if you ordered one I hope you got one that does DC, cheap ones only do AC). If you use a regular multimeter in series you have to leave it on and connected for the 40 minutes before taking a reading. The test results mean nothing until you wait the 40 minutes. Also make sure the IA fobs are away from the vehicle because they can cause the newer vehicles to wake when approaching in some cases.

You can use the control feature of FORscan to manually set an alternator voltage (up to 15V) and then put loads on the charging system to see if the voltage holds.

Battery tests by auto parts stores vary so widely in scope that they often can't be trusted. In some cases they only do a simple resting voltage check, which tells you nothing about the load capacity of the battery. The better stores will have an electronic battery tester that will measure the internal resistance (conductance) of the battery to estimate load capacity. Better yet are the old fashioned carbon pile load testers, which actually put a large current draw on the battery. The person doing the test must be experienced so the test is done properly.

Now the above measure the cranking amps of the battery, but they don't really measure the capacity which is also important. A year or two ago I was left with a dead factory Ford 96R battery (same battery you likely have) a few times, and I did the same as you checking the parasitic draw and testing the battery. The parasitic draw was normal, and the battery passed all of the load tests I tried (I did all the different types I mentioned above). However, it failed the reserve capacity test I finally tried, lasting only 5 minutes instead of 90 (5% capacity). So the lesson is a battery might still be bad even if it tests good for cranking amps.

I think you can go crazy testing everything, but you should considerer just replacing the battery at some point. Yours is 3-4 years old so it might be time depending on how hard of a life it's lived. Remember to reset the BMS again if you switch batteries.
 

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.... Used FORSCAN software on my laptop with bluetooth OBD2 adapter to run BMS reset procedure. I was unaware of this reset procedure so did not do it when I initially replaced the battery.....
Just to clarify, you've (relatively recently) replaced the battery with a new one, not just re-installed the original battery?
 

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Yes, replaced the battery 2 weeks ago.
Perfect! IMHO that slight delay in doing the BMS reset is a non-issue, the FORScan/manual programming reset having more to do with long-term charging strategy (the aspects relating to total battery age) and less to do with the short-term charging strategy (the aspects having to do with current battery condition) which is driven primarily by the 'state of charge' and which is automatically 'reset' without owner intervention during every extended period of rest (typical overnight sitting of a vehicle).

But that automatic 'state of charge' determination is totally dependent on our olde friend the BMS sensor :eek: ;)
 

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I measured the current drain from the battery after shutdown. It started at 4.55 amps:

Time Measured current from battery to load
0 4.55A
1 min 3.8 A
2 min 618 ma
3.2 min 375 ma
10 min 377 ma
11:25 min 29 ma
12 min 14 ma

At just 14 ma, I'm not concerned. Bottom line, the computers and modules in this car consume electricity up to 12 minutes after shut down. So if you are searching for a parasitic battery drain, be patient.
 

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I've been having this issue for a while now, but for a few months I've been experiencing this issue and jumping it almost daily, only to have tracked down the source of the draw yesterday: the SYNC 3 system is sucking my battery dry. Was there ever a TSA for this issue?
 
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