Outstanding Spider Pig!

 

Are those Alpine Type R or Type S? I'm trying to decide between the two. I was wondering if the R's were worth the extra cost. Are you going to use the factory or an aftermarket amp? What do you mean by you like your music a certain way?

 

They're type S Alpines. I couldn't justify doubling the price by getting the type R's when, in my opinion, the Type S Alpines are nearly as good.

And my car does not have the factory amp/sub. I'm not going to go with heavy bass, and will probably just use my all-in-one Kenwood KSC-SW1 that I've used for my past three cars. It's small, so I don't lose a lot of space, but offers deeper bass without rattling parts off of my car. I just have to decide how I want to wire it into the car, since it can't fit under the seats and I'd have to run a lot of wiring.

And by saying I like my music a certain way, my preferred audio setup is highs in the front, mids in the, well, middle, and bass in the rear. So by just using the tweeters on the Alpines in the rear doors, which are just as good as the factory, but now just lower in the door, it helps to even out the sound per my tastes. The Type S's can really put out a lot of sound at very high clarity with minimal distortion. I can't listen to them over half volume because they end up hurting my ears.

 

Gotcha! A lot of the car audio guys swear by the Type-S. Seem to e a lot bang for the buck. I'll probably end up with the separate mid/tweet for the front and the coax for the rear. I don't think the standard radio has separate tweeters in the rear doors, but I'd have to double check. I think I might be able to squeeze one of their amps under the passenger seat. A sub would be great, but I don't want to take up any cargo room with one. I read somewhere here that JL might be making a stealth sub for the Escape. That would be pricey,but nice.

 

Two questions:

1. Are these 6.5 inch diameter speakers like the fronts? Alpine model number?
2. Did you verify the speaker phase, i.e. verify that speaker cone moves out for a positive voltage on the same node as the OEM speaker?

 

I believe these are the ones Spider Pig has installed. Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.
These are are basically the same speaker with separate woofers and tweeters. Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.

 

Thanks,

Here they are on Amazon: Amazon.com: Alpine SPS-610 6-1/2" 2-Way Type-S Series Coaxial Car Speakers: Car Electronics

 

Yep, those are them. SPS-610s in 6.5". And the speaker phase is correct with the factory speakers.

 

Spider Pig - what system did your escape come with? Your post really has me considering upgrading the system. I have the 9 speaker stereo (not the Sony). I was a little disappointed with the overall sound quality. The amazon link shows your rear speakers are just $60. My question is about how much it was improved. Is it worth it? Is it an amazing improvement?

I don't want to overhaul the system, but swapping out 2 or 4 speakers may be worth it if the stock head unit is powerful enough to make the new speakers sound good. Please elaborate on how it sounds now.

 

I have the nine-speaker system as well, and I was really disappointed in it. The factory speakers are only 25 watts and put out really muddy sound.

Using the Alpine SPS-610s in the Amazon link, it was a vast improvement. It's not going to make any audiophile get mushy, but it is much better than the factory system. Without getting an aftermarket amp to power everything, it's also not going to be world-shattering. The system is limited by the stock Sync head unit too, so a speaker swap is only going to accomplish so much.

The mica tweeters on the type S Aplines are very good, and even though you do lose some tweeter volume from the rear speakers by not utilizing the stock tweeters (you wind up turning a 9-speaker system to a 7-speaker system), the sound is very good now. Clean and powerful at higher volumes.

There isn't an overwhelming amount of bass without cranking up the volume, but if you're planning on adding in an amp and subs, it won't matter. There is still more bass than the factory speakers, and in my opinion, it's a substantial upgrade, especially considering that you're only in for about $130 with these speakers.

One other thing to think of is that you're always going to have a front-bias sound system with the 9-speaker setup if you don't add a subwoofer in the rear because of the additional speaker above the CD slot. In the sound setting menu in Sync, you can bias the speakers towards the rear by changing the vehicle's seating occupancy to "rear" instead of "all." That's what I did to minimize the additional speaker in the front from making the system sound like I was running the front speakers at a higher volume than the rears.

 

Thanks for that information. Very helpful. Did you do just the rear 2? Or did you also swap out the front ones?

 

I swapped the fronts at the same time, but didn't make a DIY because a better one already existed that I linked to.

 

Do you happen to know if there is room in the stock front tweeter location to install aftermarket tweeters?


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

I didn't open them up to look, but I don't see why not. The factory tweeters are one inch diameter, so I would think any one inch tweeters would work. The mounting area looks to be pretty deep, so if you're thinking about going with components, I would think that they would fit just fine.

 

Just a question for you guys who have done a speaker upgrade, I purchased a set of mid bass drivers to replace the factory speakers. Are the first and fourth speaker wires on the connector the input signal and the second and third the output to the tweeters? Just want to understand how the signal makes it to the tweeters in the system.

 

I was wondering the same thing. I couldn't tell from the pics if there is a built-in crossover in the door woofer or if the 2 wires for the tweeter just "pass through" the harness and that the tweeters wires are actually coming from the head unit on a seperate channel.

But then again, the tweeters up front must have a seperate channel since they are located in the A pillar. Or the crossover happens before the wires go into the front door. Doesn't really matter up front, I'm sure there are 2 wires for the A pillar tweeters and thats what my upgrades would use. But many components come with a small crossover, so it would be nice to know so your not doubling up.

 

^ Perfect Thanks!

 

These speakers fit with no cutting of door? I'm wondering why Crutchfield doesnt list any alpines for fitment in 2013-2014 escapes?

 

The Alpine SPS-610 definitely fit in the front and rear doors of the 13-14 FE with no cutting. The Alpine SPS-610c components also fit, the tweeters will need to be held in the OEM location with a dab of hot-melt glue between the Alpine tweeter body and the OEM plastic prongs molded in the door and A-pillar panels.

More than one of us has done both of these installations using the Alpine '610' speakers (I used the component SPS-610c, replacing the OEM tweeters in the OEM locations). No idea why Crutchfield's fit lists omit the Alpines, maybe having to do with when they do/don't choose to make a specific 'adaptor ring kit' available?

If you pull the OEM speakers but leave the OEM plastic adaptor that's fastened to the doors (as shown in Spider Pig's post) no adaptor ring is required, the speakers will just be about 3/4" - 1" below the door trim panel. You can add your own adaptor ring to bring them closer if desired (I used the OEM speaker frame rim as an adaptor ring to bring them up to exact fit a small fraction of an inch below the door trim panel). My install described here
http://www.fordescape.org/forum/ele...ronics-audio-lighting/30265-2014-se-alpine-edition-non-sony-audio-upgrades.html

 

Hey guys,
Is the brown wire the negative and the white one the positive ?
(i am talking about Spider Pig's pics of the rear door factory speaker wires)
Thank you.

 

I just installed my Alpine SPS-610 in the left rear door and it doesn't sound good at all !
I don't get it.
The factory 25W sounds way better and has much more and better bass then the Alpine 80W RMS.
There must be something wrong. (it can't be)

I thought that i installed it out of phase (inversed negative and positive), but i tried the other way around and it doesn't sound better.
What i do to test is that i set all the sound to the rear and i switch the sound from right speaker to left speaker.

The factory 25W (left) sounds very nice and clear with a loud bass while the Alpine SPS-610 80W (right) sounds very low and without bass.
Could it be because i do the test without the door panel on the right side (Alpine) but with door panel on the left (factory) ?
I doubt this could be the issue.

If you guys have any idea of why this is happening, your help would be very much appreciated.
Thanks a mil.

 

put the factory spkr back in and leave the door panel off.
compare the feft and right spkr and see if they sound the
same and you will know if that is your problem.

 

Thank you Gary712 but i already cut the factory harness so i can't put the the factory speaker back. (it is a special harness)
But when i switch the sound from left to right there is a huge difference, and i would be surprised that the door panel could make such a big difference.
I am so disappointed, i don't know what to do about this.

 

First, RE: speaker wire polarity, for all '13 -'14 year systems (6-spkr, 9-spkr and Sony (please tell us which you have?)) ... NOTE all the wires are 2-color striped; if you only see one color, look closer ....

LEFT REAR DOOR
white/green is (+)
brown/yellow is (-)

RIGHT REAR DOOR
brown/white is (+)
brown/blue is (-)

Second, the sound will definitely be different with/without the 'door card' (trim panel). You will get the 'best' performance from any speaker if it is mounted as close as possible to the molded ring on the inside of the door panel without touching it (or even better with a thin layer of foam gasket/weather-strip material 'sealing but isolating' the speaker frame from the door trim panel). The OEM speakers are at that position .... depending on how you did the mounting your aftermarket speakers may well be recessed away from the door panel with a gap which is not desirable. You can make or buy trim-rings to get it to the best (close) position. Do NOT let the speaker suspension roll touch the door panel.

A large gap between the speaker frame and the door trim panel can 'kill' the speaker response as the sound bounces-around behind the trim panel rather than projecting into the vehicle interior. The OEM speakers have a very thick frame which the Alpines do not; the Alpines will definitely be recessed and leave a large gap if you don't have some sort of trim ring to raise them up to the OEM position.

Third, you may find you need to adjust the front-to-rear balance different than with the OEM speakers due to difference in the speaker efficiencies. You don't mention if you retained the OEM tweeters when you installed the Alpine SPS-610 coax speakers. You should not. The OEM tweeters will have a different efficiency and will be very difficult to 'balance' relative to the Alpines since you have no separate level control between the two. Sacrificing the high-in-the-door tweeter is a compromise (as to perceived high-frequency sound) you make when you install coax speakers and that will make a difference in the overall sound. You may not like that compromise, in which case component speakers mounted in the OEM high and low positions may be needed for you. High frequency (tweeters) being more 'directional' tend to sound better when closer to ear-level, all other things being equal.

It is virtually impossible to judge the 'final result' by comparing an incomplete installation (one side Alpine, one side OEM). Until you finish the job and get it all buttoned-up with the trim you can't really tell what you have. You may still not like it, but you can't really tell 'till what you have, sound-wise, until the installation is complete.

Fourth, speakers are a very subjective thing. It may be that you simply don't like the sound of the Alpines compared to stock. There's nothing that says that's wrong if that's what your tastes are. There's no shortage of speakers at all price ranges that 'just don't sound right' to some folks' ears. Price and Name are no guarantee that they are right for you. Just like the music they play, not all speakers are for everyone.

If you like very loud 'boomy' bass (which some folks do, that's OK) then the Alpines are probably not for you. They are both lower efficiency (need more power to be as loud) and less inherently 'boomy' than the OEM speakers - they have a more controlled bass sound.

Fifth, even if you cut the harness you can always 'go back' to OEM (unless you damaged the speaker cone or frame itself).... it just may require a bit of splicing or soldering to get from your harness cut to the speaker terminals.

 

Thank you so much for you reply centex. Very useful.

1. I have the 9-speaker non-Sony system (and 8" Microsoft Sync display) which i think, is standard in the SEL.
2. Thanks a lot also for the color/polarity details, it is exactly what i was missing from Spyder Pig's tutorial.

I installed the Alpines SPS-610 on my rear door exactly like Spyder Pig explains it in his tuto, i followed all the steps he described.
So i mounted the Alpine rings received with the speakers directly on the factory rings that were used by the factory speakers. (see my attached photos)
The factory tweeters are disconnected/abandonned.

I installed the Alpine on the rear left and i kept the factory speaker on the rear right.
To test, i didn't put the left 'door card' back, while the right door card is in place, so this can influence the sound (as you said).
But the difference is huge ! The factory spkr sounds so much louder, and has so much more and better bass, that i am now wondering if the Alpine i have doesn't have a problem.
Tomorrow i will remove it and put the other one (the second Alpine i got in the 2 spkr set) to make sure it sounds the same.

I will also try to measure the gap between the speaker and the molded ring on the inside of the door panel. To see the difference between the stock and the Alpine. Again, your info was very useful about this as i didn't think that the distance between the speaker and the molded ring could change a lot.

I owned Alpine spkrs in previous cars before, and i really liked the way they sounded and their power. The bass were amazing. So i don't think it is simply that i don't like the sound of those Alpines versus the stock spkrs, but this said, it is true that i like spkrs that have a nice heavy bass and also true that my Alpines are way quieter for the same volume level than the stock.

I will do some more tests, replace the one Alpine (rear left) by the other Alpine, maybe put the door card back and listen if it improves anything.
If not, i might go back to stock spkrs, which would be very weird to me.

Thanks again.

 

....So i mounted the Alpine rings received with the speakers directly on the factory rings that were used by the factory speakers. (see my attached photos)

....I will also try to measure the gap between the speaker and the molded ring on the inside of the door panel. To see the difference between the stock and the Alpine. Again, your info was very useful about this as i didn't think that the distance between the speaker and the molded ring could change a lot....

Good pics but still hard to judge the 'depth' of the mounting. You can simply measure your removed OEM speakers from the bottom of the frame-flange to front of the frame and compare that to what you have with the Alpines in place. The OEM dimension puts the speaker as close as it can be to the inner door trim without touching. If memory serves there's a thin foam gasket on the OEM speaker rim to 'seal' that thin remaining gap to the door trim. From what you're describing I don't think the larger gap with the Alpines accounts for all of the issue but it may play contribute.

FWIW I chose to destroy my OEM speakers by 'gutting' all of the cone, magnet, supporting spokes and a thin raised lip on the face, leaving only the thick flange ring. I then mounted my Alpines to that, which raised them to the exact same position as the OEM speakers almost touching the inner door trim. Thin self-adhesive weather strip foam seals the remaing narrow gap just like OEM. Yes, lots of cutting and grinding the hard plastic with the Dremel to make that work, the OEM speakers are 'wasted', but the resulting fit is perfect with no other adaptors used.

Given your latest comments I suspect the big thing you're experiencing is the difference in efficiency between the 610's and OEM. As Spider Pig suggested, once you have 'em completely installed maybe you can find a good combinations of settings that will work for your tastes. Don't overlook the 'occupancy' setting ('Driver' vs 'all seats' (or something similar, I'm not lookinga the menu now)) as one to experiment with.

One thing we've not touched on is how different folks prefer front/rear balance to be set (which can sure affect our different opnions about what speakers are 'good' or not) ....

Some folks prefer rear speakers to be heard by the driver at the same volume as the front (or close to that). This gives the 'listener impression' of sitting 'on the stage' surrounded by the musicians. Because the rear speakers are low and behind the driver that means they must actually produce a higher volume than the front speakers. So, the amp, its settings and the speakers all have to support that.

Some folks prefer the rear speakers to be heard at a lower volume, attempting to replicate the sound bouncing off the back wall in a live music setting. This give the listener impression of sitting in front of the stage similar to an audience seat at a concert. Again, the amp, its settings and the speakers have to support that but obviously the lower volume requires lower power and can tolerate lower speaker efficiency relative to the front.

I happen to be in the second camp, and have even installed a DSP to enhance that preference, but either is 'valid' - all that counts is what you like.

Just curious since I've not seen it mentioned .... have you changed your front speakers?

I just hope you can get there, that's all that matters.


edit just FYI http://www.fordescape.org/forum/ford-escape-classified-forum/49625-alpine-amps-sale.html#post603153

 

The Alpines are not as loud as the stock speakers, but you will have better range with more clarity. I also noticed a lower bass volume, but that was fine with me, as I felt that Ford was artificially pumping the bass up in the OEM speakers, which lead to a lot of static and just horrible noise when pushed towards their limit.

An interesting thing about the 610s: in my opinion, they sound much more full, with greater depth of sound, when the volume is increased over normal levels. At normal levels I think the sound tends to blend together, which is not something I have ever seen in all my time using Alpine speakers.

I would try the things Centex recommends. I tweaked my sound in the head unit until I got what I liked, so you just might have to play with your settings. But if you are looking for deep, heavy bass, you won't get it out of the 610s. Those seem to be made with more mids and highs in mind, and would probably sound amazing in a car with a full setup including a good sub with a solid amp.

Good luck!

 

I agree with Centex, especially in point 3. Listening to 2 different speakers in stereo is a test destined to fail, we simply can't do a valid test due to the way we (all humans) hear and process sound. Even 2 different, but totally awesome speakers, can sound like finger nails on a chalkboard. Do your test in matched pairs, then decide. You may still find you prefer the originals, but you will at least have conducted a fair (for your ears) test.
I can't even tolerate mismatches front to rear