That is one clean install of the 4 channel amp. Nice wiring job too. We think alike.

 

I'm flattered, thanks!

 

very nice.

now I just need to get mine over there for you to install a sub. lol

Centex Auto Electronics. lol

 

.... now I just need to get mine over there for you to install a sub. lol .....

Hey Darrell - if only adding a sub there's an easier place to tap into the speaker L/R outputs at the console. PM me if you want the details.

(that 'lower' speaker harness misses the feed for the front tweeters - not a problem if adding a sub or abandoning the front OEM tweeter hookups; lots less wire-run than going up to the Audio Unit like I did to catch the front tweets ;-)

.... love the massage chair idea

Lol, with only an 8" sub the 'massage' is pretty much 'for your ears only'

 

@centex,

Pics look great, love the massage chair idea

 

Hey was wondering where the easy estate point to get my outs would be to just hook up and amp and sub? Thanks new here but not new to car stereos

 

Hey was wondering where the easy estate point to get my outs would be to just hook up and amp and sub? Thanks new here but not new to car stereos

Not sure I understand your question, but if you have the non-Sony with 8" MFT the answer may be in this thread, linked in my OP above

http://www.fordescape.org/forum/diy-garage/29945-diy-non-sony-audio-upgrade-tips.html#post374689

NOTE if you have the Sony system that does not apply ... you'll need to search for the other threads by folks that have done mods to the Sony system.

Since this thread was last updated I've changed my system to use different outboard amps and include a DSP and separate amp / subwoofer. I still used the speaker-out connections described in the linked thread for the feed to the high-level (speaker level) DSP inputs. Please carefully read the linked '.. Upgrade Tips' thread entirely for all the details.

 

Ok thank you thanks for the quick response. I have been waiting for it lol yes i have the non sony 9 speaker in my 2014 escape but i want to tap in the easyest and cleanest way possible just to ad an amp and sub in. Thanks will be checking out the link you sent in a min.

 

So, I was about to upgrade the two speakers on the rear door because I heard some rattling every time song with a little bass kicked in. I then realized, it was coming from the speaker all the way on the back...not the rear doors. Oddly enough, I just found one speaker there, not two. What kind of speaker is it...I am unable to find specs. The manual says "Audio System from Sony® with 10 speakers
and HD Radio™ Technology"

Ok, two in the front doors, two in the back, four tweeters...and the one in the back. Any idea where the last one is? Am I going bout this all wrong?

 

Doh, its the subwoofer...
Plus you have the one in the center of the dash, total 10.

 

That's gotta be theone rattling....gonna have to buy a better one, then.

 

Its probably the panels around it rattling because there's a subwoofer behind them...

 

Hey there, I'm thinking of duplicating your setup - I like the stealth and keeping everything clear a lot! How does the PWE-S8 affect the air vents under the driver seat?

 

....How does the PWE-S8 affect the air vents under the driver seat?

The 'snorkle' that sticks up to blow air to the rear left floorboard must be removed - it simply pulls-out of a 'snap-in' connection and can be snapped back into place if you ever remove the sub.

I jammed a piece of foam in the opening during winter when I used the heater to keep from blowing hot air directly onto the bottom of the sub/amp. With/without the foam blocking the opening I couldn't detect any difference in the airflow from the other floor vents.

 

Ok I see - thanks for the reply! Did you use a line output converter to get all the devices hooked up?

 

See this thread for more details http://www.fordescape.org/forum/diy-garage/29945-diy-non-sony-audio-upgrade-tips.html#post374689

but don't hesitate to post Q's here, too, I'll try to help....

+ No, I did not use an LOC - went straight from the high level (speaker level) output on the OEM HU to the high-level input harness on the MRV-F300 made for that purpose.

+ The PWE-S8 also has a harness for high-level inputs so I just split the front L&R inputs at the MRV-F300 harness and ran those over to the PWE-S8. The powered sub then does the 'blend' of those two inputs to get proper single-channel subwoofer sound.

You could use an LOC and then feed to the low-level RCA inputs on the amp and sub. But IMHO that just introduces complication and another potential source of noise with no benefit. That's why I chose components that have built-in high-level input provisions (and there are lots of quality choices other than the Alpine MRV-F300 that offer direct high-level input).

If you're interested in an LOC "+" like one of the AudioControl LCQ-xx units because they advertise 'signal conditioning' I'd urge you to skip that for your first-step upgrade. IF you later think you need the 'signal conditioning' you can always insert the LOC "+" at the amp where you'll already have the inputs handy. I suspect you'll find that the 'signal conditioning' of that sort isn't worth the complexity and cost relative to the other components in this range.

Now if you want go the next $tep to D$P ..... well, that'$ another matter ... that's the rabbit-hole I've slipped into ....

 

Awesome - thanks for the tips and pm's!! Really helpful

I made my decisions and have decided that I can live with losing a little space. Ordered the MRV-V500 5 channel to run the 4 speakers and 1 sub that way I can just siphon off the high level output one time and minimize other devices and chances for noise. I wanted to buy the JL CP108LG-W3v3 but I found the Pioneer TS SWX2502 for $110 and couldn't justify the extra. Hope I'm not disappointed :S

 

Very cool, I'll bet you enjoy it all lot, we'll look forward to your 'review' when it's all installed.

 

My ’14 SE has the non-Sony entertainment with 8”MFT. I wanted a bit better sound … less ‘muddy’ in the midrange and a bit more bass fill.

I listen mainly to CD’s (making the transition to lossless format rips on the USB drive) and ‘like a bit of volume’ when on the open road. I’m always disappointed when I listen to an MPx back-to-back with the CD/lossless WMA. 99% of my in-home listening is on vinyl. Classical, 60’s-70’s rock/electric blues, folk/singer-songwriter and popular jazz are all in my collection.

Considering my budget I was aiming for something in the range of “good-to-better” on the “good-better-best” scale. Look to @markboris garage for how to approach “best” ;-) I ruled-out adding DSP from the start.

A main criteria (= compromise) for me was that everything needed to fit as stealthy as possible. I often completely fill the cargo area behind the rear seats when travelling. I didn’t want this mod to affect the look or how I use my FE and I wanted it to sound the same whether travelling empty or loaded.

So, here’s what I ended-up with:

Speakers – Alpine SPS-610C Alpine Electronics of America, Inc. ; these are 4 Ohm component speakers with 6-1/2” woofer/midrange and separate 1” tweeter; they include a passive crossover between the two; rated at 80W maximum RMS, 70Hz-22kHz frequency response.

They fit the OEM locations in the doors (A-pillar for the front tweeters) so I put ‘em in front and rear. Per suggestion from markboris I tested with and without the front center speaker connected and ended–up pulling that 3.5” center speaker out completely.

I plan on only upgrading the front speakers and tweeters. Does the stock 8" MFT stereo have enough juice to power the Alpines you used? How did you deal with the crossover on that set?(where did you stuff it?) It's hard to tell if it just connects to the tweeter or main wire then you have to run separate wires to tweet/woof-which I want to avoid.

Thanks.

 

+ IMHO the Alpine SPS-610c are fine with the stock HU .... Just based on listening I think the efficiency is essentially the same as the OEM speakers, so you get the same volume range.

+ FRONT: install the woofer in the door as normal; install the tweeter in the A-pillar using the OEM wires > Alpine harness with XO > tweeter; I used hot-melt glue to stick the cylindrical XO in available space in the A-Pillar trim near the tweeter. That provides the same wiring circuit as recommended by Alpine, no additional wiring required.

+ REAR: install the woofer as normal. I chose to abandon the OEM wires from the woofer to the tweeter, instead using the Alpine provided harness for that run; glued the XO cylinder to the inside of the door trim panel near the tweeter. Be sure to insulate any OEM wires you abandon if you leave one end tied to the OEM harness (no short circuits needed ;-)

I suppose that you could use the OEM woofer>tweeter harness in the rear, but since you'll likely be clipping-off the OEM plug at the woofer to make that connection, IMHO it's just easier to use the Alpine harness with connectors already matched to the speakers at each end.

Through all of this just be very careful to keep the polarity correct on all wires. See the attachment to this post http://www.fordescape.org/forum/374697-post2.html showing the wire colors for +/- at each location, the colors do not change between the HU connector and each speaker.

Just eyeball the door panel / A-pillar trim vs door / a-pillar structure to make sure the location you choose for the XO has clearance with the trim installed (there's plenty of room at all locations).

Hope that helps, have fun!

 

I just ordered the SPS-610s from Amazon. In the unlikely even that I am not happy with the Alpines, I want to be able to put the oem speakers back. That means that I won't be hacking into the oem speaker to get the mounting ring. I don't see any reason why I can't fab the mounting ring out of wood. May have to do a build up to get the correct thickness.

Any thoughts on the wood version or why it might not work?, and has anyone measured the height (thickness) of the oem plastic piece? I can always use the oem speakers on the bench as test speakers if the Alpines stay. Once I have the new speakers installed, I'll have to decide if I need an amp. Right now, I don't turn the volume up past 12. I just don't like the hollow bass and lack if clean highs. The FE is too nice to be suffering with the stock sound. My old Explorer stock audio sounds better.

 

^^^ A perfectly understandable plan on your part. I see no reason that you cannot fabricate perfectly suitable spacers from wood, MDF, or even HDPE solid 'cutting board' material used by the DIY car audio crowd. Just remember to 'seal' (paint, varnish, whatever) all surfaces of any wood-based product used to prevent degradation due to the inevitable in-door moisture exposure that will occur over the long run.

Measuring just now ... the OEM 'spacer made from the speaker' is 11/16" thick for my Alpine SPS-610 installation; there's a 3/32" (uncompressed) foam 'gasket' between that frame and the piece it bolts to on the metal door frame. When all 'bolted-up tight' that leaves space for a 1/4" foam weather strip 'seal' (Home Depot) around the speaker face to gently compress between the speaker and the inside face of the door trim panel at the speaker grille.

Fortunately, the 'tapered' adaptor that is different front and rear is separate from the speaker frame and you'll be able to retain that undamaged with your approach (which will get the 'angle' of the speaker correct since the metal door panel is not in a plane parallel to the door trim panel at the speaker grille).

You'll have to deal with how to 'preserve' the OEM harness speaker connector for future 'restoration' if you choose, but it sounds like you've got the wherewithal to figure out which of the several options for achieving that are best for you. I'd probably cut it off with a bit of a 'pigtail' remaining to allow restoration by solder and heatshrink, and solder on a new 'pigtail harness end' with female spades to match the Alpine/standard aftermarket speaker male spades, but there are other methods that will work (please avoid 'wire-strand-cutting' Scotch-Taps, the bane of all nasty wiring modifications ;-).

IMHO you're on a perfectly sensible path for step-by-step upgrades, allowing you to measure cost/benefit as you progress, and stop where you are happy.

Hope that helps, have fun!

 

Thank you very much for the info centex. I would not have thought of sealing the wood. I am interested in your choice of that class D amp under the seat. Nice and small. Like the idea of auto turn on and high level inputs. I have used a small class D amp before and was very impressed how it performed and how cool it stayed. One thing that my Lepai LP-2020A fudged about was its output power rating. It states 20W/ch. But when you read closer, it is 20W but at 10% distortion. In reality, it is only good for 12W of clean audio, which is still very loud. All this is leading to the question of do you think the MRV-F300 is real 50W. I have not been able to find anything techinical on that amp. I have also been a long time fan of Alpine electronics in the car, so I am leaning toward that it is a real 50W.

If I do a nice enough job with the wood spacers, I'll post photos.

Thanks again for the info.

 

...do you think the MRV-F300 is real 50W....

All I can do is point to the mfr specs for output vs speaker impedance, THD and S/N here http://support.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM_MRV-M500_F300.pdf and note that the amp is CEA 2006 compliant, which though a 'manufacturer self-test' standard, perhaps gives some indication of the credibility of the ratings.

Given how many of the things are sold and the brand, I'd imagine Google would reveal a slew of 'independent test-bench' hits if the Alpine claims were grossly overstated.

One certainly doesn't need 50WRMS to drive the speakers being discussed to 'painful' volume levels .... IMHO the reason to have a bit more power than required 'on tap' is to keep the amp well within its very comfortable optimal performance range in normal operation, thereby more likely avoiding distortion, noise, clipping and thermal overload/self-protecting shut-down (the concept of 'headroom' in audio system design).

Since the OEM amp probably puts out something on the order of +/- 20-30WRMS I personally don't see advantage to adding an amp of less than 45-50 'clean' WRMS to gain 'headroom' or if you're driving some extraordinarily low-efficiency speakers (IMHO).

The features of speaker line-voltage-sensing turn-on and high-level input make the MRV-F300 very convenient for the Escape non-Sony application, but there are lots of other very reputable amps that provide those features and power ratings. And some alternatives may do without the internal active crossovers offered by that Alpine unit which you may not need if all your speakers are coax or have passive XO's, which could offer a lower cost all other things being equal.

 

Those specs say it all. I guess I am just spooked when I see amp power ratings. Too many Chinese designed products. Like the days when you could get an equalizer/booster that was rated at 100W/ch and cost $25 and was a slim case made of tin and you could hide it in your glove box.

You are right about not needing 50W but if you add in 6-12db of low end boost, it doesn't hurt to have that headroom, I don't know what the stock HU puts out. Maybe 12W? I had a 50w/ch in my old Camaro in the 80s and it drove those 6x9s real nice at the low end. I don't run sound that loud anymore.

 

IMHO the country of design/fabrication has little to do with the credibility of advertised amp specs (many of my very high quality audio components as well as my iPhone are made in China or other far-eastern countries).

I think the latter has more to do with the overall reputation, longevity and thereby credibility of the company that markets and sells the products under their brand name. Alpine, JBL, and many other 'big name' companies survive based on the credibility of their specs in these days of prolific 'home test benches' and interweb information exchange. Personally I don't think any of those 'big-name' companies 'fudge' their specs in any significant way. Not sure I'd have that confidence with many of the AliExpress / E-Bay direct sellers that come and go with the wind. Caveat emptor is certainly in order when dealing with those vendors.

And I also believe that to a certain extent pricing is an indicator .... when the deal looks "too good to be true ...."

But let's not get too far astray from the original thread intent, which is the mechanics of a modification, not review of specific components, OK?

 

Received the Alpine SPS-610 speakers yesterday and began preparation for the install. I removed the stock speakers and the plastic mounting plate. I built up a new mounting plate using 1/4 inch MDF. Not having a compass available, I used a one gallon paint can, which happens to be 6-1/2 inches in diameter and another circular object I found to be 5 inches in diameter to draw out the spacers. Three spacers were needed to build out the SPS-610 to near the original speaker buildout from the door panel. Three spacers were laminated to each other with wood glue and let set a few hours. Then followed up with two coats a clear Spar Varnish.

The sheet metal screws that were supplied with the speakers were perfect for mounting the wood spacers to the door. The spacer mounting holes were counter sunk to keep the mounting screws flush. Spliced in the short pigtails that came with the speakers leaving the original speaker connectors intact. Tie wrapped them out of the way.

Original speakers measured 1.5 inches from the door panel to the front surface of the speaker. New speakers measured 1.2 inches. I didn't use any foam gasket on the front surface of the speakers, remembered about that after door panels were replaced. These door panels are so tight and difficult to remove, that I just didn't want to do it.

The new speakers are just as loud as the stock ones, only they are much cleaner and have more solid lows and better highs. I left the stock tweeters alone, only changed the door speakers up front. For my taste, I am finding that I set the Occupancy Mode to Rear and adjust the Fader about 3/4 way to the front. Still get some bass fill in from the rear, but not enough to be muddy. I am finding that with the treble set at 90% and mid set at midway and bass set at 90%, I am happy and can turn the volume all the way up to 30 and it sounds great. Mostly I find the volume set at 22. There is going to be a big difference in volume levels and sound quality between the CD, USB and Radio.

I am so happy with the sound as it is now, that I am leaving the rear speakers as they are and am finding an amp is not necessary for me. I am not as hard core about car stereo as I was when I was younger in the 80s with an EQ and 100w/ch in the Camaro.

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Don't forget which way to take out this arm rest or you will be doing what I had to do. Remembered the correct way to take out the other side.

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Centex - did you remove the under seat air duct to install the subwoofer? My 14SE has a duct on both sides

 

Yes, required for clearance to get the sub to fit nicely where I had it.

The visible 'snorkle' just pulls out of the duct with no damage and can be snapped back in place no problem if you relocate the sub later as I did. In winter I put a foam 'plug' in the duct-end so hot air would not be blowing on the sub/integrated amp. Didn't seem to make any airflow problem from the other vents either way.

I did not remove the snorkel on the passenger side, the amp fastened to the seat bottom was well above it.

 

Here are photos to go with Post 30 on page 3 of this thread.