[null]

There is no algorithm to address a few too many pounds of the car and the driver. Reduce the weight and gain more mpgs.

 

[null]

Not sure how that has to with driving style, but removing weight will improve mpg's some. Improving aerodynamics will increase mpg's alot more like installing Grill and Wheel covers.

Paul

Prius is at least 600 pounds less and it's mpg much higher. Even if you get eAWD. The point is you can do better with less size/weight without some special algorithms and driving style.

 

[null]

Prius is 3010lbs to 3220lbs and FEH is 3534lbs which is 314lbs to 514lbs just to be accurate. Someone interested in a 2020 FEH would be interested in Prius, to small. I still get better MPG's(53mpg's) than a Prius too without sacrificing the extra room.

Paul

The point is smaller and less weight is always going to be more efficient, no algorithm is going to solve that. The reason you get better mpgs then Prius is purely your driving style, you would simply get better then rated mpgs with any car.

 

[null]

Not necessarily, anymore. This is very true of conventional drivetrains, before regenerative braking.

Weight affecting efficiency isn't going anywhere. Simple physics. Good example is Rav4 (~3800 lbs and 41 mpg city) vs Highlander & Sienna (~2600 lbs 35 mpg city) which comes up to ~800 pounds less or 15% more efficient for Rav4. Since we have a drop of about 2% in gas economy for each 100 pounds, then we can roughly calculate that 15% drop. Of course there are other variables since engines are bit more powerful in Sienna/Highlander, but still the point is still valid here that less weight gives us better mpgs.

 

[null]

That's a false statement.

That's fake news for sure

1) Prius vehicle is smaller. Drag force is1/2 x Cd x Speed^2 x rho (mass density) x CA (cross-sectional area, HxW)

• 2014 Prius height x width = 58.7 x 68.7 = 4033 sq. in.
• C-Max height x width = 63.9 x 72 = 4601 sq. in. (14%> Prius)
• Escape height x width = 68.6 x 74 = 5076 sq. in. (26%> Prius)

2) Prius Cd (drag coefficient) is lower. It historically falls with each generation through the 0.3-0.24 range. C-Max was touted as 0.30 Cd while I've not seen anything for the new Escape, so I'd estimate it at 0.35 Cd. That's another 25% and 45% advantage to a moving Prius

You do realize that kind of coefficient is barely 1-2 mpg improvement? Weight still has bigger impact among other things.

I'll stick with the Escape!

Well, that's the only valid statement

 

[null]

Let's put this to bed.
Gen3 Prius got 44 MPG (EPA 48 MPG) in CR testing, weighed 3115 lb.
Gen4 Prius got 52 mpg (EPA 52 mpg) in CR testing, weighed 3080 lb.

WOW 25% for only 25 lb.!! If that were the case, passengers would matter!!

haha, are you serious? How about comparing Gen1 to Gen4, I think it suits better for your silly comparison of generations.

(PS. Your RAV4-Highlander example is missing the drivetrain and vehicle size factors that drive this kind of thing.)

That kind of thing is a few keyboard strokes away if you want to do your own research. A bit of a hint I used all top trims with AWD. The difference in size / coefficient drag has negligible impact for all 3. It's the best comparison available to make the point that weight is still a big factor for efficiency.

 

[null]

I pulled this efficiency data for normally aspirated engines from the attached SAE report .
View attachment 79196
Highlighted areas are 34% Brake Thermal Efficiency. Not only are new engines more efficient, they have larger operating ranges that exceed historical best of a decade earlier, with large, low-torque operating range. I also attached a report on a 2018 Toyota Camry engine that gives you details behind the prototype above.

I expect Ford has similar efficiency maps for the 2.5L in the Escape Hybrid. It's why I'm getting better mileage than I did in the smaller, lighter C-Max.

No one disputing that newer engines are getting a bit more efficient but you are missing the point about the weight. Load up your Escape with 400+ pounds (4 people in the car and cargo) and compare results without it.

 

[null]

I routinely bring in 150-300 lb. loads, doubling the load on one leg of a round trip. Any weight effect is swamped by speed, terrain and weather differences.

C-Max reported trip regen "savings." I saw no more than a 9% effect on routes with a lot of stops.

9%! See my post 51 just proves my point that weight is always going to be the biggest culprit multiplied by terrain/speed/weather.

 

[null]

Post 51... is that where you claimed that a more powerful engine got worse mileage because its car's heavier? More powerful engines have been less efficient since long before my time. Why do you keep proving my point?

Oh my that's highschool physics... As far as engines go they are both 2.5L engines and Highlander has just 24 more hp. That's hardly you can call "bigger". It needs more horses to pull all that extra weight 800 more pounds and even that "bigger" makes it slower and not as efficient as smaller R. If they would have put same engine as in R no one would have bought one.

Your point is well taken, but rendered moot, in this case, by regenerative braking.

Yeah you have lots of regenerative braking while cruising on the freeway. Also only hardcore efficient drivers get full benefit out of regen braking.

 

[null]

Everyone else understands that mass matters quite a bit for efficiency otherwise we would be all be driving EV trucks with 500 miles of range and not the tiny sedans.