[murcod]

Interesting point. I just loaded my saved 'as built' file to FoCCCus in offline mode and see that in my case that line 210 is populated with "Unknown" (that's the file generated by FoCCCus when I read my car before any mods were done).

I do see 4 choices on the drop-down menu for that line:
T5 52Ah/500 CCA
T6 60Ah/590 CCA
T6 IF 60Ah/650 CCA
T7 80Ah/700 CCA

I've got the "As Built" data from a UK model diesel 2.0l TDCi Kuga (2016 pre update) and it's got "Unknown" as well. I doubt Ford would put that data in the BCM for no reason- it must surely be used for some calculation in the BMS to optimise charging? If left as "Unknown" it might just use some default algorithm???

 

[centex]

I've got the "As Built" data from a UK model diesel 2.0l TDCi Kuga (2016 pre update) and it's got "Unknown" as well. I doubt Ford would put that data in the BCM for no reason- it must surely be used for some calculation in the BMS to optimise charging? If left as "Unknown" it might just use some default algorithm???

Yeah, I suspect you're correct on all counts. I get quite a few "unknown" entries on that list when I read with FoCCCus ..... no reason to believe that "unknown" to FoCCCus means "unknown" to the car's operating systems
:laugh:

FWIW the "T#" battery size system isn't too commonly used in the US but T6 60Ah/590 CCA seems to correlate to the 'BCI Group 96R' spec more common in the US and installed as OEM in many (all?) US '13-'15 2.0 FEs.

Some have posted here about upgrading their US 2.0 to the 'Group 94R' battery which typically is spec'd at 80Ah/790~850CCA, perhaps closer to the T7 80Ah/700 CCA on that Focccus list of choices. IIRC none of those battery upgraders have mentioned making any change in this parameter using FoCCCus (that doesn't mean it wouldn't, or would, help with optimizing that larger battery of course).

I can't help but wonder if any sort of instrumentation you or I might have could give a hint as to the difference in charging behavior between those settings. Curiouser and curiouser, eh?

More aside .... though FoCCCus won't 'play nice' with the '17 FEs (at least the US versions) I believe that model, having auto stop/start, may use a more powerful battery by default than the earlier US models.

Do you happen to know what the "IF" designation means on that one T6 battery listed in FoCCCus? Perhaps a particular battery construction/chemistry (Li-ion or ? ) that prefers a different 'charging profile' (google shed no light on that for me)?

 

[murcod]

Yeah, I suspect you're correct on all counts. I get quite a few "unknown" entries on that list when I read with FoCCCus ..... no reason to believe that "unknown" to FoCCCus means "unknown" to the car's operating systems
:laugh:

FWIW the "T#" battery size system isn't too commonly used in the US but T6 60Ah/590 CCA seems to correlate to the 'BCI Group 96R' spec more common in the US and installed as OEM in many (all?) US '13-'15 2.0 FEs.

Some have posted here about upgrading their US 2.0 to the 'Group 94R' battery which typically is spec'd at 80Ah/790~850CCA, perhaps closer to the T7 80Ah/700 CCA on that Focccus list of choices. IIRC none of those battery upgraders have mentioned making any change in this parameter using FoCCCus (that doesn't mean it wouldn't, or would, help with optimizing that larger battery of course).

I can't help but wonder if any sort of instrumentation you or I might have could give a hint as to the difference in charging behavior between those settings. Curiouser and curiouser, eh?

More aside .... though FoCCCus won't 'play nice' with the '17 FEs (at least the US versions) I believe that model, having auto stop/start, may use a more powerful battery by default than the earlier US models.

Do you happen to know what the "IF" designation means on that one T6 battery listed in FoCCCus? Perhaps a particular battery construction/chemistry (Li-ion or ? ) that prefers a different 'charging profile' (google shed no light on that for me)?

I've never noticed any batteries in Australia referred to by a T* designation. Perhaps I haven't looked close enough, but it's certainly not normal terminology for battery sizes here.

Regarding the "IF"- I found one post on a Russian forum (lots of knowledgeable people on there from past experiences) which suggested it's for EFB batteries. They're special batteries designed for longer life in Stop/ Start systems https://translate.google.com.au/tra....au/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://ffclub.ru/topic/264312/jump_750/&prev=search https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/technology/efb-battery-technology That could be right?

 

[centex]

I've got an automotive batteryspecs table (PDF) from Interstate Batteries (a major US vendor) that lists some T* sizes, sorry, I can't find the link where I downloaded that at the moment. One of very few places I've seen that size designation used.

Regarding the "IF"- I found one post on a Russian forum (lots of knowledgeable people on there from past experiences) which suggested it's for EFB batteries. They're special batteries designed for longer life in Stop/ Start systems https://translate.google.com.au/tra....au/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://ffclub.ru/topic/264312/jump_750/&prev=search https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/technology/efb-battery-technology That could be right?

Works for me - great find, kudos!

 

[ralph7up]

FYI. @centex is 1000% correct regarding the need to reset the BMS using the scan tool for all Escapes including the the 2017 Escape. Just got the 72 hour WSM and checked what it says for the 2017. THERE IS NO CHANGE FROM HIS MANUAL (previous model year Escapes). When replacing the battery, the WSM clearly states to manually reset the BMS using the scan tool. If this is not done "it tells the battery system it is in an aged state...."

As far as I am concerned this wack a mole issue is dead at least for the 2017 MY Escapes and previous.

 

[centex]

^^^ No 'joy' in that ..... I do wish Ford had provided a clearer and easier way to 'make things right' when a new battery is installed by anyone.

My suggestion would be a shielded reset button on the well-hidden sensor at the battery negative terminal with a simple plain-language tag warning that it's only to be pushed when a new battery is installed. I've no doubt that given the already-in-place CANBUS communication between that sensor and the controlling logic modules, such could be implemented.

IMHO that'd be a much more owner-friendly solution, reasonably protected from mis-use and clear to even the least-skilled battery replacement technician (or DIY-er), than the currently provided obscure and cumbersome approach.

 

[ralph7up]

^^^ No 'joy' in that ..... I do wish Ford had provided a clearer and easier way to 'make things right' when a new battery is installed by anyone.

My suggestion would be a shielded reset button on the well-hidden sensor at the battery negative terminal with a simple plain-language tag warning that it's only to be pushed when a new battery is installed. I've no doubt that given the already-in-place CANBUS communication between that sensor and the controlling logic modules, such could be implemented.

IMHO that'd be a much more owner-friendly solution, reasonably protected from mis-use and clear to even the least-skilled battery replacement technician (or DIY-er), than the currently provided obscure and cumbersome approach.

That may work. Not sure it will ever be done. What about changing the CCA value of the battery? How would that be accomplished?

 

[KY.BORN]

FYI. @centex is 1000% correct regarding the need to reset the BMS using the scan tool for all Escapes including the the 2017 Escape. Just got the 72 hour WSM and checked what it says for the 2017. THERE IS NO CHANGE FROM HIS MANUAL (previous model year Escapes). When replacing the battery, the WSM clearly states to manually reset the BMS using the scan tool. If this is not done "it tells the battery system it is in an aged state...."

As far as I am concerned this wack a mole issue is dead at least for the 2017 MY Escapes and previous.

So what if you replace the battery and Don't Reset, what happens???....The 8 hr sleep period is suppose to tell the computer state of charge so whats the difference?? Like I said before, this is way too cute...trying to pull a German car special....

 

[ralph7up]

So what if you replace the battery and Don't Reset, what happens???....The 8 hr sleep period is suppose to tell the computer state of charge so whats the difference?? Like I said before, this is way too cute...trying to pull a German car special....

According to the official Ford Workshop manual for the 2017 Escape, ......"if the battery reset is not carried out it holds the old battery parameters and time in service counter in memory. Additionally it tells the system the battery is an aged state and my limit the Electrical Energy Management system functions".

Your choice to reset when the time comes. Me, I prefer not to take a chance.

Hope this helps.

 

[KY.BORN]

According to the official Ford Workshop manual for the 2017 Escape, ......"if the battery reset is not carried out it holds the old battery parameters and time in service counter in memory. Additionally it tells the system the battery is an aged state and my limit the Electrical Energy Management system functions".

Your choice to reset when the time comes. Me, I prefer not to take a chance.

Hope this helps.

Yes, but if the 8hr. sleep tells the state of charge, new fully charged battery, why would it think its in a aged state, time wise?...You can have 5yr. old battery in better shape than a 2 yr. old battery sometimes...Wouldn't that negate the need for reset??..Anyway you look at it, its nonsense what Ford came up with....

 

[centex]

Yes, but if the 8hr. sleep tells the state of charge, new fully charged battery, why would it think its in a aged state, time wise?...You can have 5yr. old battery in better shape than a 2 yr. old battery sometimes...Wouldn't that negate the need for reset??..Anyway you look at it, its nonsense what Ford came up with....

The "nonsense" here is you choosing to ignore the fact that all current technology automotive batteries degrade with absolute age, and your insistent refusal to open your mind to the notion that instant state of charge and battery absolute age are each different factors in the equation of optimal battery life for a particular battery which might both be used to guide a dynamic charging strategy aimed at extending useful battery life to some degree.

Your anecdotal comparison of two different batteries, one 2 years old and one 5 years old, has no logical relationship to efforts to optimize the performance of any one particular battery over it's life. Do you really think that your 'sometimes scenario' predictably occurs when both of those different batteries experience identical controlled histories? No, of course not ..... that 'sometimes scenario' occurs because of differences in how the batteries were used and treated over their life. Identical batteries exposed to identical use-histories very predictably behave essentially identically; that's the basis of the entire battery industry and all who rely on it - lacking that predictability we would not have anything that's reliant on batteries in common use.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions and arguments but others are entitled to discount them when they lack any demonstrable basis in good science.

 

[ralph7up]

Yes, but if the 8hr. sleep tells the state of charge, new fully charged battery, why would it think its in a aged state, time wise?...You can have 5yr. old battery in better shape than a 2 yr. old battery sometimes...Wouldn't that negate the need for reset??..Anyway you look at it, its nonsense what Ford came up with....

That is why I stated you can handle as you wish. I prefer not to. Do I understand ALL the ins and outs of the new computerized battery stuff. Clearly no and at my age (points plugs and condenser) I will not attempt to make the great leap. I have gone online at a number of sites and determined that it is something I do not wish to do. Rather, I am defaulting to a concept that there is good reason for any car manufacturer to publish maintenance procedures in its workshop manual. My dad was in the auto industry for many years. One thing that he impressed upon me was everything had a purpose even down to the number of fasteners. It represented cost. If things were not necessary, they would not be there.

My belief anyway. You also are entitled to yours.

 

[KY.BORN]

The "nonsense" here is you choosing to ignore the fact that all current technology automotive batteries degrade with absolute age, and your insistent refusal to open your mind to the notion that instant state of charge and battery absolute age are each different factors in the equation of optimal battery life for a particular battery which might both be used to guide a dynamic charging strategy aimed at extending useful battery life to some degree.

Your anecdotal comparison of two different batteries, one 2 years old and one 5 years old, has no logical relationship to efforts to optimize the performance of any one particular battery over it's life. Do you really think that your 'sometimes scenario' predictably occurs when both of those different batteries experience identical controlled histories? No, of course not ..... that 'sometimes scenario' occurs because of differences in how the batteries were used and treated over their life. Identical batteries exposed to identical use-histories very predictably behave essentially identically; that's the basis of the entire battery industry and all who rely on it - lacking that predictability we would not have anything that's reliant on batteries in common use.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions and arguments but others are entitled to discount them when they lack any demonstrable basis in good science.

Your missing the point, changing a car battery today or 50 yrs from now should not take a technical background..Yes, today cars rely heavy on computers monitoring everything, but the reset if needed , should be by anyone replacing it...The reset could have been built in the system, such as the oil reset without the need of scan tools or software...Whats next, air filter change reset?? What happened to the transmission dipsticks, wouldn't you like to see the level and smell your transmission fluid periodically.... Where's the locking gas cap or lid...easy access to oil drain and filter ?...Seems this is just a way to make basic maintenance a thing of the past and not accessible to anyone but service techs..not that it's better or truly necessary...Simple things are best if it gets the same job done...That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it...

 

[aruek]

Simple things are the best... I must agree a big time but not all the time.
Battery reset... Well I did it a couple month after replacement, I did not have the tool and I needed the car so... nothing happened before nor after. But I guess "something" happened inside the electronic magic of the car...
Nevertheless I must say I believe that after it was resetted the battery saver came later than before.

Enviado desde mi LG-H520 mediante Tapatalk

 

[ralph7up]

Your missing the point, changing a car battery today or 50 yrs from now should not take a technical background..Yes, today cars rely heavy on computers monitoring everything, but the reset if needed , should be by anyone replacing it...The reset could have been built in the system, such as the oil reset without the need of scan tools or software...Whats next, air filter change reset?? What happened to the transmission dipsticks, wouldn't you like to see the level and smell your transmission fluid periodically.... Where's the locking gas cap or lid...easy access to oil drain and filter ?...Seems this is just a way to make basic maintenance a thing of the past and not accessible to anyone but service techs..not that it's better or truly necessary...Simple things are best if it gets the same job done...That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it...

If all you are saying is that this is a crude and cumbersome approach, I think pretty much everyone will agree with you. The original threads on this matter cover everyone's opinion on that. Unfortunately, we are left with what is and I have identified what I have done (2013 Escape) and intend to do when it comes time for battery replacement for my 2016 Escape.

 

[KY.BORN]

Simple things are the best... I must agree a big time but not all the time.
Battery reset... Well I did it a couple month after replacement, I did not have the tool and I needed the car so... nothing happened before nor after. But I guess "something" happened inside the electronic magic of the car...
Nevertheless I must say I believe that after it was resetted the battery saver came later than before.

Enviado desde mi LG-H520 mediante Tapatalk

Can you please explain again what happened when you didn't have a reset done after battery change, and what happened after the reset,, I didn't quite understand what you said..And did you let the new battery sit for 8 hrs. locked??. Thank you...

 

[mmmfloorpie]

I have befriended a Ford tech on Facebook. Maybe I'll get his opinion too lol.

 

[aruek]

Battery died... Car needed... i bought the battery and replaced myself. No module reset, car ran fine but I noticed that with engine off the radio battery safe mode interrupted quite quick in about 5 minutes... A couple months I did the module reset just for fun really... And noticed that the battery saver took longer to kick in. That's it.

Enviado desde mi LG-H520 mediante Tapatalk

 

[KY.BORN]

If all you are saying is that this is a crude and cumbersome approach, I think pretty much everyone will agree with you. The original threads on this matter cover everyone's opinion on that. Unfortunately, we are left with what is and I have identified what I have done (2013 Escape) and intend to do when it comes time for battery replacement for my 2016 Escape.

I think this a a very clever and sly approach to making a simple repair or maintenance item into a difficult one, when its not necessary at all...

 

[ralph7up]

I think this a a very clever and sly approach to making a simple repair or maintenance item into a difficult one, when its not necessary at all...

We agree on everything stated except the last part. Let's just leave it at that.