With the cold weather last few weeks hearing the noise again. Had the TSB done last year and just accepting it's a cold weather thing. Car in all performs great otherwise. Annoying, but manageable.

The little fit and finish things are slightly annoying (heat shield rattles near the rear passenger side for example) but in all love the car.

 

Found an interesting video that shows how rotational imbalances in the engine can cause rattling noise in the gears of the transmission and how the clutch damper is supposed to silence those noises. This video is old and has nothing to do with Ford or even hybrids, but I think it's still relevant to the problem. Ford's hybrid transmissions have a lot of gears and a clutch damper between it and the gas engine.

Another good video showing the previous generation of Ford's hybrid transmission (HF35):

If the clutch damper is not doing its job, this may explain why the rattling noise and vibrations are heard/felt much more at certain (lower) speeds/RPM. I'm just guessing but maybe these rotational imbalances in the engine are more pronounced when the engine oil temperature and/or pressure are low, which could explain the rattling on cold starts, especially in the winter.

It would be great to do a transmission fluid change and have it analyzed. If it contains too much metallic residue, it would prove that this problem is causing excessive wear on the transmission and potentially force Ford to deal with it instead of saying the cars are safe to drive.

 

It's actually only the clutch damper itself that is noisy, which is why it is heard so clearly... It is not from inside the transmission at all.

There is no risk of damage from driving it with a noisy clutch damper.

 

What drives me crazy with this is its a known issue, there is a software update for it that probably takes a tech an hour tops to install, but none of the dealerships around here are like "sure, I see the TSB, you described the issue, we will fix it." They all say they need to diagnose the issue first.... well given that the issue is intermittent in nature, I'm not sure how that is going to happen.

 

Our dealer installed the TSB software update when it first came out without any hassle or additional diagnosis. It did seem to help when temperatures were cool but not cold (40s-50s). Unfortunately, now that we are in sub-40 degree temps the noise has returned upon cold starts.

If the issue is actually the clutch damper as mentioned above I'm not sure how much a software calibration will really be able to fix this permanently.

 

Yeah, I'm mainly wanting it documented so when they issue a real fix I'll have been in. It doesn't bother me enough to be worth taking in for just this, but as long as I'm there for a recall would be nice to get this taken care of.

 

Hello .

The problem of engine noise in is in all Escape hybrid or only in a models built in 2020, and os in all hybrid?
The Escapes 2021 also have that problem?

Thank you.

 

The problem of engine noise in is in all Escape hybrid...

No; mine's fine; Jan. 2020 build.

 

Also have a 2020 Escape Titanium Hybrid making the same rattling noise. Build Date Sep 2020
Dropped it off at the dealer yesterday 1/3, Service advisor called today and said the technician was able to hear the rattling and that the vehicle is currently connected to a diagnostic computer and will give me an update tomorrow; will post what I hear.
I have not mentioned the TSB; I wanted to see where they go on their own.

 

The noise has in fact been found to be emitted by the Clutch Disc Assembly LX6Z-7550-A (MSRP $189.23 USD / MSRP $251.68 CAD) which sits between engine and transmission. Both require removal as a unit, to then separate and access the offending Clutch Disc Assembly.

 

The noise has in fact been found to be emitted by the Clutch Disc Assembly LX6Z-7550-A (MSRP $189.23) which sits between engine and transmission. Both require removal as a unit, to then separate and access the offending Clutch Disc Assembly.
View attachment 80648

View attachment 80647

Thanks for the info Invader! Wow, that's an ugly site to see, I'm imagining my vehicle which only has 10,000 miles on it. Since I only have to listen to it when the weather here in GA gets cold enough, do you know if not fixing it will be an issue ... other than hearing the noise which ultimately goes away in a minute or two.

 

Hi All,

This is a very useful thread, thank you for all the information. I have just received my Kuga (Escape) in Europe and have noticed the rattling noise on the second day. It is a 06/2021 make so it clearly affects vehicles produced after April.

In addition to the rattling, I also experience the shaking of the hood and the metal grinding noise described in an earlier post (both rather alarming!). I have had them with the car slowly proceeding (combustion engine on) but also in a standing mode with the brake pressed, switching from D to N while the combustion engine was running.

I am quite disturbed by this, frankly. Not what I expect from a new car.

I left the car at the dealership yesterday but having read this thread I will forward them the TSB information...

 

Hi Sad-droid,

Mine was built 09/2020 and I also was able to produce the shaking scenario when I read about it on this forum. I never really have the need to put the car in N with the brake on, but it does certainly seem to point to something not being correct, more than likely in the programming. I wondering how many of these are running around Southern California and Florida (where it really never gets cold for any long period of time) that have this same issue, it just doesn't rear its ugly head due to outdoor temps. Where I live I only have to put up with it for a short period during the year, mine does it below 40 degrees. I'm just not sure I'm ready to have the engine/trans pulled out, but this forum has been great for gathering information. Other than a few other minor things (subwoofer rattle, foot activated liftgate that rarely works) I need to get it in for, I really enjoy the vehicle and the MPG's. Will be interested in finding out what they come up with on your vehicle.

 

Updates:

1/3: Dropped Vehicle off for service describing Rattling Noise.

1/5: Advisor called to acknowledge that they did indeed hear the rattling and can reproduce it every time the engine is cold. Tech has it connected to his computer and is running a full diagnostic; will also inspect whatever he can physically. Called again later and said they see the TSB people have mentioned in this fourm but Ford's system is saying that my VIN is not affected and so they are not able to apply the updates to my vehicle. Will contact Ford to see what they can do. Tech does not think this is a mechanical issue and instead is a software issue; mentioned that they had 2 other titanium hybrids with the same rattling noise that was fixed with the updates.

1/11: No call from dealer (assumed they've been working on it the past few days so gave them some time) so I called and talked to the Service Advisor who also had the tech on the line. He mentioned that they got a response from Ford and were all eto apply the TSB plus another TSB specifically for this problem (I think he said there were 2) but no resolution with the noise. They also reprogrammed a few other modules in consultation with Ford but had no impact. Tech still says he does not think its a mechanical issue and still a software issue. They are still going back and forth with Ford on this (says they have been quick to respond though). He did say that if for some reason it ends up being a mechanical issue needing to take the engine and trans apart it won't be till the end of March :/ .

1/14: Advisor called and said all the software updates and reprogramming of modules did not make any difference on the rattling noise (Exhausting all options the Ford even provided). So he said the next step is to remove and engine/trans and inspect. Had an extended conversation with him and looks like Ford basically thinks this is a software issue when in reality it could be a mechanical issue with the transmission; what that says to me is Ford has no clue what is going on currently. Wait time for a transmission hob is till end of February/Early March right now so I've brought the vehicle back home since it would otherwise be sitting there untouched. Thankfully the car is still drivable but man I wanted this to be a relatively easy fix and move on :/ Guess I'm in the waiting game till they can take a look at the transmission.

 

Looking forward to reading about your journey and hope it goes smoother than mine. We can hope that as more people push for a solution, Ford will gain knowledge on the actual issue at hand. I never expected a "Reprogramming" to fix this.

Good Luck,

Tom

 

I have an early 2020 Escape Hybrid and live in Southern California. I have been trying to get my local dealer to acknowledge the cold start noise since I purchased it new. I had video if the noise but they “had to witness” the problem to do anything about it. I had to wait until the cooler weather and bring my car in the night before with specific instructions to have the mechanic do a cold start first thing in the morning. After finally hearing the noise they agreed to do the TSB regarding the cold weather noise. Once I got the car back I found the noise to be gone when the gas motor was running in park, BUT it began to make the same noise when the transmission was in neutral. It was the exact same noise except now it made the noise in all weather conditions and even when the motor was warmed up. The car also shudders like it wants to move forward when in neutral with the gas motor running and my foot on the brake. My belief is the TSB that Ford recommended as a fix for the cold weather noise changed the idle RPM slightly to make the noise “go away” in park, but made it worse in neutral. I took the car back to the dealership and demonstrated the issue a month ago and my car is still there. They opened a “ticket” with Ford to identify the issue but it looks like the issue is the clutch pack as someone identified above. I feel like there are lots of escapes out there with the same issue. My car feels like it may jump out of neutral which worries me about the longevity of the transmission. Hope that helps someone out there.

 

Thanks for the info JJ Ford. I agree there are a lot of Escapes that probably do this, strange to see so few participants in this group. I agree because I saw one parked in a Kroger parking lot by me, obviously somebody shopping. I had time to kill and waited a bit to see if the owner came out. He was out in a few minutes so I quickly struck up a conversation about our vehicles. I asked him if he ever heard a rattle noise when the engine was cold. He said, "yeah, pretty much every time it dips below 40 degrees. Sounds like a piece of plastic hitting something but then it goes away, I'm not worried about it." I didn't bring up the possible trans issues as he appeared he needed to get moving, just wonder how many others blow off the noise as "nothing to worry about". Mine is no worse than the 1st time I heard it 15000 miles ago. I'm sure I'm like others waiting to hear of an actual trans job being done and if it corrected the issue. Good luck!

 

I got my car back yesterday. It took them a month to diagnose the issue. Same old story, they say Ford is working on manufacturing a new damper as a fix but there is currently no part available. This is the exact wording from Ford…. “This noise has been found to be due to the damper between the flywheel and the transmission. At this time a new part is being produced and shipped but has not yet reached warehouses for distribution. It is recommended to replace the superseded part when it becomes available in the parts catalog. Once the part becomes available is recommended to replace it to resolve this concern.”

I should also mention that the “drive mode” button that changes between eco, sport, etc. also quit working on my car. The dealership claims this is due to the faulty part in the transmission and despite my skepticism they will not attempt to fix it until the transmission is working properly. They say once they get the transmission working properly then they will attempt a fix. Does anybody else have this issue?

 

JJ Ford,

See my detailed post on page 5 of this thread. Long Story short: My vehicle is in the shop waiting for a new damper. It is due to arrive Feb 21st. The date has slipped many times. My vehicle has been in the shot for over 70 days in total for this issue. We will see in a couple of weeks if the part shows up.

Tom

I got my car back yesterday. It took them a month to diagnose the issue. Same old story, they say Ford is working on manufacturing a new damper as a fix but there is currently no part available. This is the exact wording from Ford…. “This noise has been found to be due to the damper between the flywheel and the transmission. At this time a new part is being produced and shipped but has not yet reached warehouses for distribution. It is recommended to replace the superseded part when it becomes available in the parts catalog. Once the part becomes available is recommended to replace it to resolve this concern.”

I should also mention that the “drive mode” button that changes between eco, sport, etc. also quit working on my car. The dealership claims this is due to the faulty part in the transmission and despite my skepticism they will not attempt to fix it until the transmission is working properly. They say once they get the transmission working properly then they will attempt a fix. Does anybody else have this issue?

 

Mechanic explained the noise to me in great detail. I can choose to have it fixed under warranty if I like or roll with it. Other than this noise, car is great.

 

Look here: Texas Lemon Law | TxDMV.gov


"30-day test

You pass the 30-day test if your vehicle has been out of service for repair because of a defect covered by the original factory warranty:

• For a total of 30 days or more - not necessarily all at one time - during the first 24 months or 24,000 miles (if a comparable loaner vehicle was provided while the vehicle was being repaired, that time does not count toward the 30 days) a substantial defect still exists."

Were you without a loaner car for 30 days or more? I know you like your car, but a similar situation happened to me with a 2019 fusion with the dreaded 1.5 I4 engine. I hired a lawyer for a small retainer and Ford offered to settle with me for 8k and I got to keep the car. 8k + trade-in was more than I paid originally for it.

 

See post #8. Still waiting. Stopped driving the car in cold weather. Awaiting responses from others after new updated part becomes available. Note- two highly capable dealers acknowleged noise and noted same in service reports. Only 5000 miles on car . Thanks all for keeping this tread active. JerryB

 

Jerry,

If you want a long read you can look at my post #87. I update it whenever I have a new communication from the dealership. I updated it today. They will be putting another new transmission (2nd one) next week to try and resolve my issue. 100 days in the shop. That equates to 25% of the time I have had the vehicle. Don't think I will have any confidence in the vehicle when I get it back and will probably think about selling it, but we will see.

Tom

 

In fairness, has anyone actually experienced a hard failure out of this noise? I haven't.

 

I don't think anyone has posted to this thread about any hard failures or long term effects that it might have. I do think it is not normal. I had a 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid that was rock solid for 7 years until I got rid of it. I kind of thought it would be the same powertrain but something changed either in design or manufactured quality to have so many people mention the noise. Yes I could have ignored it and do the wait and see thing, and that might have worked out OK in the long run. Oh Well.

 

I have a 2022 Escape PHEV (2000kms) and have noticed this pulsing/surging sound which to me is like water/air gargling flow sounds. I noticed this after an HVB charge outside when it was -8C. Since it was so cold out, ICE started and gargled for a while so I figured it was the coolant circulating but not my heater core since I had no heat set in the cabin. There was no issue in operating the vehicle, so who knows if this is similar to what is discussed here.

 

Hi Hanke, Appreciate your info. I believe your situation is different than what all of us have been discussing, especially since yours is a PHEV. While many of us have the surging issue when shifting into Neutral (ICE Running) with engine cold, there is a definite noise coming from the left fender well that can be traced to the transmission housing. Almost sounds like plastic balls rattling around, I think that's how this thread got its name.

While not discounting what you've posted, I'd like to share I had a 2010 Fusion that had the water gurgling sound every time there was a cold start, very pronounced in cold weather and it was coming from the heater core. On my Fusion and I believe most modern vehicles water circulates through the heater core all the time. Maybe the PHEV has a control valve to turn it off, but I really doubt it would. Ford had TSB's issued, purged the air from the system more than once, drained/filled the system a number of times, all sorts of repair attempts by the dealer but it never went away. It didn't affect the vehicle performance (similar to the trans issue on my Escape) but it was obvious. Ford never did figure it out but acknowledged my issue wasn't isolated. I gave up after many attempts at a repair, the vehicle lasted 160,000 miles (gurling the entire time, more so in winter) and then I bought this Escape. It's warm here in GA now, so the noise isn't present, but the surging can still be duplicated on cold starts. I've been holding off bringing it in hoping there would be a solution by now, but apparently not. There was one earlier post where it was noted Ford replaced the trans early on and that individual hasn't had a problem since. Apparently tclemmer hasn't had the same outcome with a new trans. I've still got 2 years left on my base warranty and then the powertrain warranty supposedly will cover this issue (per Ford dealer if it's the damper mentioned earlier). It's our only car so we'll keep driving, 15000 miles at the moment and no real change in the noise. Best

 

Thank you all for lot of info and insights. Mine was built aug 2021. I have about 3500 miles (65% EV). I am getting rattle noise during idle, cold start. When I put it in N it just gets worst.... Can anyone confirm if it is the same for you guys? Also I observed idle engine speed is not consistent. It keeps going up and down. Contacted dealer today and they asked me to drop on Mar 21. Fingers crossed software update will fix it.

 

hsd06 ... My vehicle was built 09/2020. If you get the rattling sound at an idle from the ICE while in Park or even driving, sounds like the same issue. Mine goes away after the vehicle warms up a bit. Now were in the 60-80 degree temps and the noise is non-existent. Once it drops into the 50's or lower, the noise will come back. Mine is loudest on the drivers side, either under the hood or front fender well. As with you, if shifted into Neutral while this noise is happening, the vehicle will surge, idle fluctuates, the exhaust starts smelling like sulfur and it makes even more noise ... again only when the ICE is cold and in Neutral. I saw jsus just posted about a reprogram (thanks jsus!) that might fix this issue, but unlikely it will take care of the noise. There are other posts here (#107 is one) related to a reprogramming of engine modules that don't appear to have corrected the "marble" noise. I'm sure you've read all of tclemmer's documentation, fantastic details, but still no solution. IMO I believe this problem exists on many Hybrids, either people aren't addressing it or they're just not sharing their experience. Keep us posted.

 

Sounds like this might be related to an issue reported with some Maverick Hybrids, they've found the following SSM from Ford. Says there should be a PCM update soon that I suspect should address at least some of the concerns in this thread.

Mar 1 2022 2022 Maverick, 2020-2022 Escape – 2.5L FHEV – Idle Surge And/Or Rough Idle With High Temperature In The Catalytic Convertor And Sulfur Odor In The Cab

Some 2022 Maverick and 2020-2022 Escape vehicles equipped with a 2.5L full hybrid electric vehicle (FHEV) powertrain may exhibit an idle surge and/or rough idle with high temperature in the catalytic convertor and sulfur odor in the cab. This may be due to the software installed in the powertrain control module (PCM).This condition does not affect vehicle durability and no additional diagnosis or service is required for this condition at this time. Inform customers that they can continue to drive the vehicle and engineering is currently developing a software update that is expected in the last week of March 2022. Once the software update is available, contact the customer and schedule a follow-up appointment for repair

 

Excaped....Thanks for the reply. I wasn't sure if my gurgling sound was anything similar and thought I would add my findings. Hopefully I will not encounter any major issues in the future as others seem to be dealing with currently.

 

Yes, I can smell strong sulfur in my phev. Yes, it only comes during cold start. Looks like there are 2 fixes proposed by ford
1. Reprogramming sobdmc (trans module)
2. If software fix dont work then replace clutch damper
My appt is on Mar 21 with dealer.
Anybody got any of these 2 fixes applied? How is it now after these fixes?

 

Yes, I can smell strong sulfur smell in my phev. Yes, it only comes during cold start. Looks like there are 2 fixes proposed by ford
1. Reprogramming sobdmc (trans module)
2. If software fix dont work then replace clutch damper
My appt is on Mar 21 with dealer.
Anybody got any of these 2 fixes applied? How is it now after these fixes?

Please let me now if anything is fixed. Have tried talking to my dealer for several weeks now, and they keep on saying that everything is fine. It rattles alt the time, and when i put it on neutral it starts shaking. Only got 1,5 years of the warranty, and dont wanna have a problem with the transmission after that, sinne its so expensive.

 

Has the noise problem been solved? do 2022 hybrids have the noise? Thank you

 

1st post here re the "marbles in the motor noise". My 2020 Hybrid Escape has the same issue. We have had the software updates as well as the clutch disk replaced (this is a new part, not a replacement). Initially after this replacement the sound was gone but has returned. As other people have said, it is worse in neutral. I sent them 3 different videos of the sound (cold start: park, neutral, and park with full gas). I am schedule to return it to the dealer again April 21, where they are taking noise measurements and electronic data to send to the engineers at Ford. We are in discussions to see if Ford will do some kind of compensation/trade etc, so this is what Ford came back with before they consider any "deal". Our dealership has dealt with 2 or 3 others with the same problem, but they seem to have either resolved or given up.

Has anyone else had any sucessful fixes?

 

You can read my long ordeal in post #87
Post #87

They have a new transmission and damper parts to install today or next week. This will be the second attempt. so not holding my breath.

 

Further to my last post (#131). I've just got my car back, the dealership had it for a week. Long story short...last time it was in they told me they replaced the clutch disk/flywheel damper with a new updated part. Once they checked what they had installed last time, they discovered that Ford didn't have the new part at the time, so the substituted the original part which the dealer installed, expecting that it was the new part. The brand new part was ordered and installed (along with other parts pertaining to this). This work was done according to Technical Service Bulletin #22-2061.

Initially the rattle seemed to be gone, but after a day or two we can faintly hear it again after a cold start. We will see if it gets worse.

Our concern is that this is not just an annoying rattle, but could cause unnecessary wear and tear, which may or may not be covered by warranty at some point down the road. Also with service records being available to used car buyers, it devalues our vehicle.

Our dealer has said this is all Ford has to offer at this time as far as solutions. Has anyone else found any cures?

 

See tclemmer post 87 and his most recent post. Appears Ford replaced the trans which solved the problem. Great info