[Mike W.]

The diagnostic procedure FORD has the TECH follow is very basic -

Excerpt From TSB 22-2229 COOLANT LOSS

View attachment 82957

To fully diagnose a possible coolant loss, the actual procedure is much more complex and expensive. FORD, at first customer complaint, only performs this brief procedure (this is all FORD pays the DEALER for). If no defect is realized, the dealer then advises the customer to drive the vehicle for a specified period of time and if coolant loss is noticed (reservoir) to return the car for further diagnosis.

The actual leakage may be at engine cold temp and/or at operating temp. It may be a defective cylinder barrel, head gasket, cyl head or any combination.

Coolant analysis, oil analysis and exhaust gas reading(s) can also be used to identify the problem.

So be patient and monitor the coolant reservoir. By taking it in to the dealer firstly, the complaint/problem is recorded and if there is some type of repair procedure released, you will be covered.

Coolant can evaporate over time and it can boil out if extreme engine temps are encountered. While the system is closed, it is still vented to the atmosphere.

MOONRNR, Do you think I will do damage by continuing to drive the vehicle with a leak? I understand what you are saying and I know the dealership will follow the steps you mentioned. I am just a little worried I will be shortening the life of my engine by driving it like this. I always keep an eye on the temperature gauge, but I am also worried if the coolant is getting in my oil it will cause more wear on the engine. Thank you again for your response and educating me on the procedure.

 

[sirdrivealot]

MOONRNR, Do you think I will do damage by continuing to drive the vehicle with a leak? I understand what you are saying and I know the dealership will follow the steps you mentioned. I am just a little worried I will be shortening the life of my engine by driving it like this. I always keep an eye on the temperature gauge, but I am also worried if the coolant is getting in my oil it will cause more wear on the engine. Thank you again for your response and educating me on the procedure.

Short time coolant in the engine may or may not be a bad thing but it is definitely not a good thing. Signs are smoke at the tail pipe and smell. Plus there was a test we did on our northstars to test for coolant in the engine seems there should be one for our Ford engines maybe a smog check might work. mike

 

[Mike W.]

Short time coolant in the engine may or may not be a bad thing but it is definitely not a good thing. Signs are smoke at the tail pipe and smell. Plus there was a test we did on our northstars to test for coolant in the engine seems there should be one for our Ford engines maybe a smog check might work. mike

Thank you Sirdrivealot!

 

[MOONRNR]

Do you think I will do damage by continuing to drive the vehicle with a leak? I understand what you are saying and I know the dealership will follow the steps you mentioned. I am just a little worried I will be shortening the life of my engine by driving it like this. I always keep an eye on the temperature gauge, but I am also worried if the coolant is getting in my oil it will cause more wear on the engine.

It all depends on where the coolant is leaking. Did the dealer say drive it and return if more coolant loss is noticed?

You can have an oil analysis for coolant ID done at a fairly reasonable price. I don't understand why FORD does not perform one along with the system pressure test (well, I actually do as they figure if the car comes back again and the leak point is determined, it is going to get a new engine regardless).

There is no rhyme or reason (IMO) for this as look at the amount of money and inconvenience it is causing the customer(s). They don't seem to be overly concerned with their reputation.

 

[Mike W.]

Thank you Sirdrivealot!

Sorry I did not answer your question, no I have not noticed white smoke at the tail pipe or any different smell. In all honesty I do not pay a lot of attention to the smoke coming out of the tail pipe. I will observe the tail pipe more closely when the car is running.

To answer your other comment, no the dealer did not say anything about driving it and returning if the coolant drops. He basically said you can come and get it. When he called me I did not have time to get there before they closed. He also mentioned he might be able to do the band aid for the potential cracked fuel injector issue. I am referencing the tube to divert gasoline if there is a leak, and re-flashing the processor for detection of fuel pressure drop. So right now they still have the vehicle. I still plan on pushing back more on the coolant consumption.

 

[Mike W.]

Sorry I did not answer your question, no I have not noticed white smoke at the tail pipe or any different smell. In all honesty I do not pay a lot of attention to the smoke coming out of the tail pipe. I will observe the tail pipe more closely when the car is running.

To answer your other comment, no the dealer did not say anything about driving it and returning if the coolant drops. He basically said you can come and get it. When he called me I did not have time to get there before they closed. He also mentioned he might be able to do the band aid for the potential cracked fuel injector issue. I am referencing the tube to divert gasoline if there is a leak, and re-flashing the processor for detection of fuel pressure drop. So right now they still have the vehicle. I still plan on pushing back more on the coolant consumption.

By the way I agree with you 100% about Ford showing they do not care about their reputation. My Dad worked and retired from Ford. I am 59 years old and except for my very first car, 71 Dodge Dart, I have owned Ford's. Sometimes I really consider jumping ship but I feel a loyalty to my Dad. Prior to lately I have been good with Ford and would have even recommended them. But as of recently I have steered my Son-in-Law's sister away from an 2018 Escape with an Ecoboost. I also steered a friend away from a Bronco Sport with the 3 cylinder engine. Sorry I have vented enough. One last thing I do know you will find problems with any car manfacturer. It is like jumping from one frying pan to another, some have the burner set to high, other somewhere in the middle.

 

[Mike W.]

I just got off the phone with the service rep. at the dealership. They did the band aid for the potential cracked injector issue and said they are ready for me to come get the car. I had a lengthy discussion with the rep. about my coolant issue. The rep. claims all they can do is the pressure test, which passed, for now. They will mark the overflow container and they said to bring it back if it drops. So I ask if it drops will you run the same test, he says no we will do more investigation. I say why can't you do more investigation now. He says there is no proof you have a coolant leak. I say do you think I sucked the coolant out of the container. He says no I do not, I follow with where did it go than? No answer from the rep. I do not know if I can get any further but I am considering calling a Ford rep. to see where that would go. What do all of you think? Have any of you been here, and did you get anywhere by going above the service rep. As I mentioned before I do not want to risk putting anymore wear on my engine.

If I can not get anywhere with the dealership then I will investigate doing the oil analysis mentioned by MOONRNR. That is a good suggestion! I could see Ford telling me they can't confirm I got the oil from my Escape. Like telling me they can't confirm I have a leak in my coolant system. Again I do the works and that includes topping off any fluid levels, and I also seen it with my own eyes. Sorry I get so animated but all of us work hard for our money and hate to purchase something that won't be fixed the proper way.

 

[wiz043]

I just got off the phone with the service rep. at the dealership. They did the band aid for the potential cracked injector issue and said they are ready for me to come get the car. I had a lengthy discussion with the rep. about my coolant issue. The rep. claims all they can do is the pressure test, which passed, for now. They will mark the overflow container and they said to bring it back if it drops. So I ask if it drops will you run the same test, he says no we will do more investigation. I say why can't you do more investigation now. He says there is no proof you have a coolant leak. I say do you think I sucked the coolant out of the container. He says no I do not, I follow with where did it go than? No answer from the rep. I do not know if I can get any further but I am considering calling a Ford rep. to see where that would go. What do all of you think? Have any of you been here, and did you get anywhere by going above the service rep. As I mentioned before I do not want to risk putting anymore wear on my engine.

If I can not get anywhere with the dealership then I will investigate doing the oil analysis mentioned by MOONRNR. That is a good suggestion! I could see Ford telling me they can't confirm I got the oil from my Escape. Like telling me they can't confirm I have a leak in my coolant system. Again I do the works and that includes topping off any fluid levels, and I also seen it with my own eyes. Sorry I get so animated but all of us work hard for our money and hate to purchase something that won't be fixed the proper way.

Your Ford dealer is fobbing you off and putting you in the too hard basket. I can almost guarantee your coolant level will drop again due to a leak somewhere or something more serious.
The problem is that your dealer has to get permission from Ford to carry out certain warranty work so they can get paid so they investigate one aspect and in many cases hope you will go away. If you come back they again get permission to carry out other tests and so it goes.
I would contact Ford customer service direct and tell them the situation as often they will get things moving.

 

[Mike W.]

Your Ford dealer is fobbing you off and putting you in the too hard basket. I can almost guarantee your coolant level will drop again due to a leak somewhere or something more serious.
The problem is that your dealer has to get permission from Ford to carry out certain warranty work so they can get paid so they investigate one aspect and in many cases hope you will go away. If you come back they again get permission to carry out other tests and so it goes.
I would contact Ford customer service direct and tell them the situation as often they will get things moving.

Hello Wiz043, I appreciate the response. I did what you suggested and really did not get very far. The customer service person from Ford was nice. She called the dealer ship and they said the coolant level was at minumum. I swear to everyone here that picture I pasted above was where my coolant level was sitting overnight, and when I arrived at the dealership that morning. I even made the service rep. at the dealer ship look at the coolant over flow container and he acknowledged at that time it was not registering at the minumum line, looked just like the picture above. When I called the service rep. he acted evasive about it and said I remember looking at it and the coolant? I said common man I intentionally made you look at it, then he said things are getting out of hand. I never raised my voice one time. I understand there is two sides to a story and you only reading one. I gave up on Ford motor company customer service when she told me she could request more diagnostics but I would have to pay for it. I asked her so I am responsible for the pressure test they ran and found nothing, she said yes. The dealership says there is no charge for the initial diagostic. I refuse to pay for something that is wrong with my car that I have no part of. I am picking up the car tomorrow. I made them put marks on the coolant overflow tank and I will monitor. To say the least my experience with them elevated my blood pressure. I am at the point where if my engine fails they can replace it. Oh also the service rep. at the dealership told me when you remove the overflow tank cap that the coolant level will rise an inch or two and maybe that is what the technician encountered. When I removed it before I took it to the dealership to see what was there I never seen the level change. I did not try it after drive roughly 18 miles to the dealership. Has anyone experience the level rising by removing the overflow tank cap?

 

[wiz043]

I understand your frustration @Mike W. and assume the car is still under warranty? If so you should not have to pay for anything involving the diagnosis or repair.
Never heard of changing coolant level by removing the cap on the reservoir. If it was too full when hot and expanded when you removed the cap, possibly burning your hand or face that would make sense but that is not the case here.
If this is a warranty issue and you keep losing coolant take it back and approach the dealership in a respectful manner as you have done so far but if you are getting nowhere with the dealership or Ford customer service advise them that you will take the case to the motor industry governing body. Not sure what you call them in the US. We call then Ombudsmen here in Australia and they can certainly make things happen..

 

[Mike W.]

Wiz043, Thank you very much for your support! I will keep everyone updated on what ends up happening. I guess the two things that disappointed me most was the service rep. acting evasive about what I showed him, and secondly the Ford customer service rep. telling me I would have to pay for diagnosing their issue. Anyway thanks again! Take care😊

 

[Mike W.]

I also noticed some Bronco Sport owners reporting water pump failures. I think from what I am seeing online the water pump maybe inside the engine. If that is the case that would be another source the coolant leak. If I am not mistaken that would also mix the coolant with oil. If I am wrong please tell me.

 

[MOONRNR]

Never heard of changing coolant level by removing the cap on the reservoir. If it was too full when hot and expanded when you removed the cap, possibly burning your hand or face that would make sense but that is not the case here.

I remember now! 7th grade physics class WHERE THEY TAUGHT YOU CANNOT COMPRESS A LIQUID.

The expulsion of coolant when you open a hot radiator is the coolant expanding as the result of loss of pressure on the system and immediate lowering of the coolant boiling point.

I think what is happening at the dealer level is service writers and the service managers having no actual hands-on experience. They are paper pushers.

If you bring the car (warranty - extended warranty) into the service department for concern of losing coolant, in no way should you be responsible for diagnostics. Now a cash ticket would be different.

That is absurd, but I have read many accounts,

 

[MOONRNR]

I had a lengthy discussion with the rep. about my coolant issue. The rep. claims all they can do is the pressure test, which passed, for now. They will mark the overflow container and they said to bring it back if it drops. So I ask if it drops will you run the same test, he says no we will do more investigation. I say why can't you do more investigation now. He says there is no proof you have a coolant leak.

In all actuality, he is correct. Supposedly when a NC is delivered it has to go through NEW CAR PREP and that is to ensure that car came from assembly correct. FORD PAYS THE DEALER FOR THIS. Now whether the PREP TECH even noticed low coolant (it should be @ the LOW MARK when cold) or added coolant is a guess (whether it was actually prepped is a guess).

Most people have little understanding of how to check fluids on a car. I understand that. I have little comprehension on rocket science and/or brain surgery. At each fill-up, oil level and coolant level should be verified.

If the dealer goes beyond FORD's suggested diagnostic procedure, the dealer could become liable. Remember, most dealers are franchises. FORD only draws the franchise fee.

The best thing to do (IMO) as the service personnel have become hostile is to verify correct coolant level before leaving the dealer lot (and if not correct, ask them to correct it) and maintain a close watch on it.

 

[Mike W.]

In all actuality, he is correct. Supposedly when a NC is delivered it has to go through NEW CAR PREP and that is to ensure that car came from assembly correct. FORD PAYS THE DEALER FOR THIS. Now whether the PREP TECH even noticed low coolant (it should be @ the LOW MARK when cold) or added coolant is a guess (whether it was actually prepped is a guess).

Most people have little understanding of how to check fluids on a car. I understand that. I have little comprehension on rocket science and/or brain surgery. At each fill-up, oil level and coolant level should be verified.

If the dealer goes beyond FORD's suggested diagnostic procedure, the dealer could become liable. Remember, most dealers are franchises. FORD only draws the franchise fee.

The best thing to do (IMO) as the service personnel have become hostile is to verify correct coolant level before leaving the dealer lot (and if not correct, ask them to correct it) and maintain a close watch on it.

Thank you MOONRNR, that is what I will do.

 

[MOONRNR]

Thank you MOONRNR, that is what I will do.

You know, society has changed drastically in the last twenty years or so. People are not cordial or respectful of others, even while taking your money. You have to try and outwit them.

Hope it turns out alright for you.

 

[Mike W.]

You know, society has changed drastically in the last twenty years or so. People are not cordial or respectful of others, even while taking your money. You have to try and outwit them.

Hope it turns out alright for you.

Thank you very much MOONRNR.

 

[Mike W.]

Wiz043, Thank you very much for your support! I will keep everyone updated on what ends up happening. I guess the two things that disappointed me most was the service rep. acting evasive about what I showed him, and secondly the Ford customer service rep. telling me I would have to pay for diagnosing their issue. Anyway thanks again! Take care😊

Hello Wiz0453, I realize I did not answer your question. Yes my Escape is still under warranty. It has 23,000 miles on it. I also purchased the extended service plan. Never thought to purchase the extended warranties over the years, but after the 2019 Escape engine replacement I felt it was worth it. I was leasing the 2019 Escape with the 1.5l 4 cylinder. I felt the 1.5l 3 cylinder Dragon engine would be ok so I went ahead and purchased it at the end of the lease. I purchased the 2020 Escape in January of this year. I would have leased again but leasing a car was as expensive as buying one. The new cars were marked up so I went ahead and bought this one before interest rates went up more.

 

[wiz043]

Hello Wiz0453, I realize I did not answer your question. Yes my Escape is still under warranty. It has 23,000 miles on it. I also purchased the extended service plan. Never thought to purchase the extended warranties over the years, but after the 2019 Escape engine replacement I felt it was worth it. I was leasing the 2019 Escape with the 1.5l 4 cylinder. I felt the 1.5l 3 cylinder Dragon engine would be ok so I went ahead and purchased it at the end of the lease. I purchased the 2020 Escape in January of this year. I would have leased again but leasing a car was as expensive as buying one. The new cars were marked up so I went ahead and bought this one before interest rates went up more.

Thanks....maybe I am out of touch but I would have thought that the factory warranty would cover every issue whether it needed diagnosis or repair and you should not have to pay anything especially in this case where there is an obvious problem. I realize the dealer has to get authority from Ford to do virtually anything to the car so they can get reimbursed for the work but that should not be your problem.
If you cannot get anywhere with them I would still try contacting the governing motoring body in your state and explain the situation.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/car-warranty

 

[Mike W.]

Hello Everyone,

I picked up my car yesterday. I took a picture of the coolant tank before leaving the dealership. They did put a black line on the tank where the coolant level is now, which is maximum. I will go ahead and drive and monitor. I read the paperwork and not one place did the dealer service rep. state that he seen the coolant tank basically empty. That is what frustrated me more than anything. As I previously mentioned I popped the hood and made him look at it. So the paper work reports the customer states the coolant level is below minumum, then it goes to the mechanics notes that the coolant tank was at minumum. Maybe I don't know how to check the level on these new cars. For many years I maintained my cars and I never seen coolant go from the bottom of the tank to the minumum line after driving it 20 miles. In the end at this point it does not matter anymore. I will let everyone know if the level drops again. By the way there was no charge for the diagnosis of no problem found.