If you do, make sure you hook it up right.
My shop's had a blown 6.7 sitting here for half a year because a customer decided to install his own meth kit. installed it incorrectly and hydrolocked the engine.

Great if done properly, but so much potential for damage if not perfect.

For the gains you may see, it's probably not worth it.

and for the record, the guys I know who use meth properly are so far from stock (on old japanese turbo ) that it's not something I'd ever consider for a stock engine.

 

Has everyone seen this post by Grimmage ?


{These engines use direct injection technology. This is good and bad. Good - slightly better fuel economy and more efficient delivery. Bad - the fuel is not sprayed into the intake just ahead of the intake valve keeping carbon deposits in-check. As an automotive repair/maintenance facility, we deal with engine performance issues on a daily basis. We just came back from a training seminar about this DFI technology, and dealers are scrambling to quash the issue. Out of sheer curiosity, I had my techs pull my intake manifold back and check out the valve condition. This is what we found with only 20,000 miles on the clock:

These boroscope images show the build up of carbon on the stems and valves themselves after only 20k worth of driving. Below are the after pictures - we used a high powered carbon removing chemical to get them cleaned up a bit.

So. There it is. I could have brought this to the dealers attention, but as they've told me in the past with the condensation in the head and taillights - "This is just the way these cars are." PFFFFT. Immediately after this cleaning I noted a 2mpg average in city increase in mileage. Suffice it to say, I'll be doing this once a year, every year, regardless of miles driven.
Grimmage }


This what I'm hoping a water/methanol injector might prevent. (This is for those that don't know, for those that do you skip this part.) On regular fuel injected cars the injector fires fuel at the back of the intake valve which along with fuel additives helps to prevent some this. With a direct injected car the fuel is injected straight into the cylinder down stream of the intake valve. The EGR system along with the PCV system are still injected up stream of the intake valve which is most probably causing the build-up on the backside of the intake valve (pictured). The water/methanol injector will inject up stream of the intake and is suppose to help with carbon build up.
Mark

 

This what I'm hoping a water/methanol injector might prevent....The water/methanol injector will inject up stream of the intake and is suppose to help with carbon build up.
Mark

That'd be interesting if it works.

I think the majority of Focus ST guys that are using water/methanol are making HUGE power. They can do this because they have aftermarket clutches that can handle the power. Unfortunately for us Escape owners all we have are automatic transmissions. From what I've seen the most power Escapes are probably making close or just right at 300 HP. What I'm trying to say is that we're probably not making enough power to need water/methanol injection. A larger intercooler well probably do more then enough.

If you do decide to use water/methanol injection though it would be interesting to see the results.

 

Yeah, my thought is that while it will keep it slightly cleaner, water/methanol is more of a safety thing to stop early detonation of the fuel before it hits the cylinders. Isn't that what the direct injection also takes care of, or am I off base here?

I also have a (dumb) friend who let his tank run dry and burned up his motor and turbo. Granted, he was making serious power on his Evo.

 

If you inject water/methanol in to the intake it would cool the air helping the intercooler out, which might prevent having to replace the stock one depending on your power goals. The cooler air temp means boost and timing could be raised giving more power and better fuel economy.
The Escapes ECM can self tune to some extent for the different grades of fuel, so its reasonable to think (to me anyway) that even without a tune this could make a big difference. I'm waiting for someone to come out with an Escape specific kit.
Here's a YouTube video that explains it better than I can: How Water/Methanol Injection Works & How It Makes Horsepower in Gas Engines - YouTube
Mark

 

IThe Escapes ECM can self tune to some extent for the different grades of fuel, so its reasonable to think (to me anyway) that even without a tune this could make a big difference. I'm waiting for someone to come out with an Escape specific kit.

I think the Focus ST guys are getting universal kits and using them on their cars. I really have no experience with water/methanol injection so I don't know what's involve with installing it. As you said though the Escape should handle it. Tuning isn't really needed unless an owner wants to optimize something or if a person is updating something big like the turbo.

 

While I am aware that carbon build up might occur on the back side of the intake valves, I'm not sure that this is a universal occurrence. This does not seem to be an issue with Diesel engines, even with EGR valves and their sometimes extremely smoky, oily exhaust.

Any concerns with the very much increased amount of water vapor the will now be passing through the cat and the rest of the exhaust system?
Methanol, unlike ethanol has been known to dissolve various gaskets and seals in cars.

Also, bear in mind, depending on where the "strange brew" is injected, there may not be a sensor properly located to detect the cooling effect, therefore nothing to tell the engine that a richer mixture is OK to run.


Interesting idea, but don't know if it worth the "benefits". Not a bandwagon that I would jump onto blindly.

 

Hey Dave, I was hoping you would chim in. I agree their is a risk, but isent that the case with any changes we make? I don't think the ECM relies on the temp sensor for boost and timing as much as the knock sensor. In any event I'm sure that you would inject before the throttle body. Their has to be a temp sensor after the intercooler or how would the ECM know the temp going in the engine. I need to hang out at the Focus boards more to see how well its working for them. As I said before I would like to find a kit that was tailored for the Escape or at least our style engines. Also as far as water vapor, I seriously doubt that would be a problem after going through the combustion chamber and the exhaust side of the turbo.
I had a very primitive system years ago on a 406 out of a 62 galaxy that I had in 74 F100. It had too much compression for modern low octane gas. It helped with no side effects. The only real problem I had was keeping the tank filled.
Mark

 

OK, here is some more commentary from me.

We do have an intake manifold temperature sensor and also a MAP sensor on the outlet of the intercooler. So yes we probably can sense the temperature of the air charge coming in, and infer the flow rate by manifold pressure and throttle plate opening, this could potentially affect how much extra fuel we could inject.
But, the knock sensors would work against us, because their purpose is to tell the ECM how much it can lean out the mixture and advance ignition timing. The ECM will keep leaning out until the engine starts knocking then richen up a bit. Same for ignition timing - keep advancing until it start to knock the retard a bit.So we might just end up right back where we started but maybe more MPG's.
But, with a proper tune, which increases boost pressure - hence more airflow, you could probably get more power from the engine.
The most effective fuel / air ratio for a gasoline engine is 15 parts air to 1 part gasoline by mass.
So, yes, more air allows burning more fuel. But injecting water and methanol, does not increase the amount of oxygen in the air even though the mass of the "air" coming in is cooler and denser.
The real way to get more air in is to use a more effective intercooler to reduce the inlet air temperature. This truly makes the air denser and capable of mixing with more fuel.

I've often wondered what would happen if a fine mist of water were sprayed on the intercooler to use the evaporative effect to reduce its temperature. Food for thought...

 

The real way to get more air in is to use a more effective intercooler to reduce the inlet air temperature. This truly makes the air denser and capable of mixing with more fuel.

Exactly. Trust me when I say this but our intercooler is on the edge of being overworked right from the factory. Even with some kind of cooling injection heat soak is going to happen if the intercooler is running efficiently. As I've said the Focus ST guys are only using methanol injection on the very high horsepower cars but the Escape is not even in this discussion since no knows how much our automatic transmissions can handle.

I've often wondered what would happen if a fine mist of water were sprayed on the intercooler to use the evaporative effect to reduce its temperature. Food for thought...

It works and people have been doing it for some time. Some people even spray carbon on the intercoolers to keep them cool so yes it does work. Again is it needed for the horsepower we've seen though - probably not but again it doesn't hurt.

 

I've often wondered what would happen if a fine mist of water were sprayed on the intercooler to use the evaporative effect to reduce its temperature. Food for thought

Dave, I really like this back and fourth. You challenge me think things through. First did you watch the video I posted? If you didn't please do it answers some of the things you brought up, if you did maybe watch it again.
Also in youre above post with water/methanol injection youre doing the same thing (cooling the air) except your misting water/methanol vapor into the air stream inside intercooler instead of misting the out side.
And to be more precise ideal fuel to air for gasoline is 14.7 to one.
Mark

 

My 2004 Subaru STi had a water spray system for the intercooler. If you felt you were pushing your car too hard, or you live in Texas like I do and have to deal with concrete deserts in the summer, you'd press a button on the dash, and water would spray from a container in the sidewall of the trunk.

It's actually so effective at cooling the air entering the intercooler that I have installed many of these systems aftermarket in my friends' WRXs, as they do not come with them. I even installed one on my FXT.

Subaru claims a 20+ degree drop in intercooler temperature with the spray, and that was only using water. I agree with Dave that adding the methanol can damage other gaskets and assist with the degradation of parts. There's a reason chemists use methanol to dry glassware; it eats away anything. Of course, this is why the systems are usually 50/50, but I think it's kind of extreme for our cars, unless you're going for big power upgrades that are going to generate a ton of additional heat.

 

So while researching this I found a kit for the Ford Fiesta ST and it looks promising. Apparently the intake valve carbon build-up is a problem for all DI engines including the 1.6L.
Check this out:
V2 AEM Meth Kits at EdgeAutosport

Some of you may know already, but for those that don't, AEM has revised their water/meth injection kit and now offers a few different options.

The first thing they have revised is the controller, and there are two options for controllers. The controller that you guys with the ST will be wanting to use is the boost dependent controller. It comes with an on board MAP sensor that will read up to 35psi of boost. The new design features larger turn resistant knobs to easily set accurate start and full activation points with covered status LED and test buttons for added splash resistance. There is a plug integrated into the controller housing for connecting to the redesigned wiring harness's positive-lock connector. The boost depending controller has a molded-in, barbed connector to accept a boost hose and a wiring legend on the back. The new controllers feature an easy to access integrated fuse and molded mounting tabs. Also, AEM’s engineers spent extensive time revamping the controller’s flow control strategy for a more linear flow output delivery. This means that the flow delivery better matches an engine’s need for water/methanol injection, which further optimizes charge air cooling and detonation control.

AEM’s Water/Methanol Injection kit’s wiring harness is terminated with a positive-lock connector on one end and has color-coded wires to ease installation. Both the power and ground wires for the pump are included in the harness which simplifies the wiring process and eliminates any chance of the pump accidentally activating from a short in the system. An additional wire is included for adding an optional on/off solenoid to stop fluid flow when the system is inactive.

The controllers in AEM’s Water Methanol systems include an integrated “Boost Safe” output feature that monitors the entire injection system and triggers a ground signal via an output if it detects a voltage-related error (short, bad connection, broken wire, overheated pump, high or low voltage signal, etc.), allowing users to define their failsafe strategy from something as simple as flashing a warning light to more advanced strategies like pulling boost or ignition, or switching fuel maps on a standalone engine management system. Combined with the integral and highly accurate conductive low-fluid switch in the tank, “Boost Safe” can also put your engine in safe mode before the system runs dry. This exclusive feature is found only on AEM Water/Methanol Injection Systems.

Click below to purchase to read more about these kits or to purchase.

AEM V2 Water/Methanol Injection Kit Internal MAP w/out Tank - $399.95

AEM V2 Water/Methanol Injection Kit Internal MAP w/ Tank - $
​

​

Also did you know that water alone will raise the octane?
Or certain windshield washer fluids contain methanol and can be used as injector fluid?
Here's is more good reading on the subject:

What Type Of Fluids Can I Use With My Water Methanol Injection System?
Pure Water
For beginners the most basic fluid you can run with your water methanol injection system is pure water. Unfortunately the use of pure water injection is all to often over looked as an option, as many believe they must have some percentage of methanol in the mix in order to be beneficial. This is completely untrue. While not as effective as blends of water and methanol. Pure water injection can be used when other solutions are not available.

Additionally, pure water injection may actually be preferred over mixes containing methanol or pure methanol. For example, when working with carbureted applications we recommend running pure water injection or water with very little methanol (less then 20%) vs. mixes containing larger percentages of methanol or pure methanol.
Unlike EFI applications, with carbureted applications we can not easily compensate for large amounts of additional fuel (methanol) being injected into the engine by a water methanol injection system. Therefore, we will run pure water injection so as not to effect the air fuel ratio. Thereby, not complicating the tuning process and continuing meter the engines air fuel ratio primarily through the carburetor.

Tip: With carbureted applications, we want to meter air fuel ratio primarily through the carburetor. However, most carbureted forced induction applications will tend to gradually lean out as the engine runs up. A water methanol injection system can also be used as a tool to add a little extra fuel to the top end when needed by increasing the methanol percentage in the mix.
Furthermore, it seems many people are still miss informed of the benefits of pure water injection. Often times we hear people referring to pure water injection as only offering the benefit of cooler air charge temperatures with no added increase or effect to octane. This is untrue. Water is a very "effective" octane enhancer. While it's not a high octane fuel as methanol and does not burn as part of the combustion process. Water is a remarkable anti-detonant. Thereby allowing engines running pump gas to withstand higher boost levels, hotter air charge temperatures and cylinder pressures without the onset of detonation. For more information about water injection and it's effects read our article "116 octane With Water Injection".
Best of all, water costs very little. When using water it‘s important to use distilled water and not tap water. Tap water contains to many minerals and will clog your system over time.
Methanol
Methanol of course is another fluid which can be used with our water methanol injection systems. Either in pure form or mixed with water. Generally most users will run some type of water methanol mix. The most popular mix is 50/50. That is mixing 50% water with 50% methanol by volume. Not only does this make mixing easy, it's more affordable then using pure methanol and more importantly it's non-flammable. For most gasoline EFI forced induction applications, we recommend a 50/50 mixture.

The use of pure methanol is also quite common amongst users. With no water in the mix, users are able to run significantly higher amounts methanol through the engine. When running pure methanol it will make your air fuel ratio go very rich in which you will need to reduce fuel through the ECU to compensate for it. Technically, we are unlimited to how much methanol we can spray, as we are simply swapping one fuel for another.
Locating pure methanol can be difficult. Most race tracks, such as drag strips, sprint car tracks and go kart tracks, sell methanol. If you live near any them try them first. Additionally, many dyno shops have been found to carry it as well as performance speed shops. Try calling VP Fuels to see if there is a shop in your town which carries it. Other places you may try are hobby shops which sell remote controlled gas powered airplanes and cars and suppliers of industrial chemicals. If still no luck try one of the following online sources in which you can buy 5 gallon drums and have shipped to your house.
Online Sources For Buying Methanol:​

• Hyperfuels​
• World Wide Racing Fuels​

It's important to point out not all water methanol injection system can use 100% methanol. Our systems are designed for use with 100% methanol. Additionally, when running pure methanol we highly recommend upgrading from our standard high temp plastic lines to our stainless steel hose. Methanol is an extremely flammable fluid and users should take extra precautions when using it.

Windshield Washer Fluid
Windshield washer fluid has quickly become one of the most popular fluids used in water methanol injection systems and for good reason. For starters, it's extremely affordable costing anywhere between $1.00-$1.70 per gallon and can be located in most auto parts stores across the states.

Unfortunately, not just any type of windshield washer fluid can be used. When shopping for a windshield washer fluid it's important to find of washer fluid rated for at least -20 degree's below zero as it will contain a large percentage of methanol mixed with water. Additionally, be sure to check the bottle and that it contains methanol as there are some eco-friendly windshield washer fluids rated below zero which do not contain any methanol which you do not want to use.
Most washer fluids rated between -20 and -35 degree's below zero contain between 30-40% methanol. When working with a particular windshield wiper fluid it's always a good idea to check it's MSDS sheet as this will tell you exactly what it contains and how much. To do this simply go the manufactures website as they often times list the MSDS sheets on their website or you may do a search on the internet.
Its always a good idea to also first check the MSDS sheet of the windshield washer fluid you are going to use to verify exactly what it contains. Some washer fluids will contain additional additives in very small percentages (less then 2%)
Heet

Found in just about every auto parts store across the states. Heet is a gas-line antifreeze & water remover designed for cold weather starting, preventing gas line freeze ups and for removing moisture from your fuel system. Heet is essentially 12 oz. of pure methanol and works as a great as a kicker to windshield wiper fluid, generally costing only $1.50 per bottle, when users want to increase the methanol content.
Basic mixing instructions are as follows. Take for example 1 gallon of negative -20 degree below zero windshield washer fluid, which is approximately 30% methanol 70% water. By adding four 12oz bottles of Heet, to the one gallon of windshield washer fluid will give you a 50/50 mix of water and methanol.
Denatured Alcohol

When all else fails another fluid you can use and count of finding locally with no problem is denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol can be purchased at any Home Depot, Lowes and many other home improvement stores and is located in the paint department.
What is denatured alcohol you ask? Denatured alcohol is generally 90% ethanol with 10% methanol added to it to render it undrinkable for human consumption. While ethanol does not offer as good of a cooling effect as does methanol. Ethanol does have more power per unit volume then methanol. However, methanol is still the preferred choice over the two alcohols.
Isopropanol

Isopropanol, commonly referred to as rubbing alcohol, may also be used in your water methanol injection. While we haven't personally performed any testing using it, we have heard of many using it with great success. Isopropanol is much more expensive then other forms of alcohol costing upwards of $100.00 per gallon. Additionally, its generally only 70% pure containing 30% water.
Due to it's high cost and being hard to find in large quantities, we do not recommend isopropanol to be used by exclusively. However, we can see isopropanol working well as a kicker to windshield washer fluid when users want to increase it's alcohol content as it can be purchased in small quantities for fairly inexpensively.

Pre-mixed Water & Methanol
We're often asked by customers if we sell pre-mixed water methanol mixes as offered by other competing companies. The answer is NO. While this is convenient, we feel there are much more affordable solutions to these expensive pre-mixed water methanol solutions. Additionally, by the time you add shipping your looking at paying $60.00 for basically two gallons of methanol and two gallons of water. Lets face it your really paying $60.00 for two gallons of methanol. Not only are there are many other more affordable solutions. It doesn't make sense to ship water around.​

For more information, please visit this articles web page.

I'm still digging into this before I make a decision.
Thanks
Mark

 

The only way to tell the effectiveness of the system is to use science.
You would need a complete set of before and after dyno runs to see if any power increase is realized.
You would need several thousand miles of with and without driving combined with a thorough inspection of the intake valves to determine the efficacy of the cleaning effect.
While the kit is not terribly expensive, verifying its true effectiveness could could be costly and time consuming.

 

You're right Dave, the performance advantage is easy as their are many before and after dyno sheets. As for the valve cleaning and fuel economy a installed kit and before and after tracking and inspection would be required. I'm first going to keep digging for others experiences and the kit that would work the best for a stock Ecape. My Escape only has 2,500 miles on it so I'm planing on checking the valves at 15,000 to 20,000 miles. I have a friend that has a bore scope that I can barrow. I then will decide if a worth it.
Mark

 

Hey guys, bumping this thread. Keen to know if anyone has taken the leap and installed a water meth injection kit, like the stage 1 snow performance model kit.


There are more and more carbon build up ecoboost motors turning up now that they are some older FoST cars running around, including 2 locally here in Adelaide that have blown piston rings from overheating etc.... (you can read this on another thread in the forum). So the consensus looks to be water meth kit to keep temps down and clean out the carbon. An Aussie dealer OEM DENIED has shown to a local Focus community before after FoST 2.0 engine fitted with the kit and makes a huge difference. The feed is of throttle body spacer with injection point and using MAP sensor. Am not technical but personally to protect my investment, I am seriously considering this kit along with my FoST mates. Not after more power, just the cooling/cleaning effect that is evidenced in the FoST community.

Therefore, has anyone installed a kit? etc...? I have asked Torrie from Unleashed where I got my tune from for advice as well and happy to share his feedback when sent to me.

Cheers fellas.

 

Throttle body is fine but there is an intake manifold spacer with 4 injectors. Instead of the tb spacer using one.

It was new a few months ago on the focus st forum as can use it like a new set of efi controlled injectors. Giving more time to inject etc to the current table

 

Ok. I have my snow performance stage 1 kit. It will be installed hopefully in early to mid October. Am not getting new Torrie tune for it, instead likely to run as water injection on std 9-11 psi setting of the unit. This should provide some additional octane which the ECU Will compensate for. If I decide to run 50/50 meth than that's will be a bonus of additional octane rating. As previously mentioned, more of a cooling and cleaning use rather than outright performance gain I am after. However onc fitted will look to dyno the car as it is well overdue. Also have damondsport throttle body's spacer as easier to fit and met me needs for cooling cleaning. Manifold spacer with injector ports would have been great if I was seeking more power with a new tune. However how much more power can out transmission handle is something I don't wish to explore. As is I believe i a man running about 210-220kw at the engine or approx 160-170kw at the wheels.

No intercooler for me as too expensive to ship and then customise fitting and removing front bar etc... the WMI kit will do the cooling effect for me.

Will keep everyone up to speed and will make sure I get photos of install when it goes ahead.

 

Injecting water on it's own should keep the engine cleaner. There's a lot of info on it on the internet.

 

i dont think water has enough solvent strength to do anything about the intake valves. the meth over time might help

 

It seems to work well inside the combustion chamber. I guess it would be a case of trying it with a DI engine and see what happen with the rear of the valves.

Perhaps we could build a system with an additional injector in each port with good old petrol being used? >
That should keep things clean!

 

....Perhaps we could build a system with an additional injector in each port with good old petrol being used? >
That should keep things clean!

The emoticon is meant to convey that's totally "tongue-in-cheek", isn't it?

 

Yes, the irony of how new technology isn't always better.

A bit like people posting with start/ stop system issues. All to save around 0.9 litres of fuel per hour (warm idle - according to my trip computer.)

I've played around with water injection on a previous vehicle I owned, which suffered from detonation on hot days. Sadly, the pressure pump I used didn't like the cycling on/off and died a premature death- I should have spent the extra and bought an accumulator tank as well. There are a lot of kits out there now and it would be interesting to see the long term benefits on a direct injection engine.